Rocky Marciano vs these 70s punchers

49-0 he would find a way

 

He got knocked out by Quarry because he swarmed him and tried to get him out of there fast, it still took something like sixty punches send Shavers packing, but he just couldn't do anything when being dominated by a more offensively sound man. It's not like Lyle knocked him out in one, Quarry just made sure to get him out of there quickly, which I don't see Marciano doing. Marciano's whole plan hinges on him being able to drag Shavers into deeper waters and wear him down and knock him out, because Shavers had a pretty good chin, and wouldn't get flattened by one Marciano right.

I never said it'd take one right hand, but if Rocky has to take Shavers into deep waters to win, then he will take punishment, and punishment from Shavers is not something I'd bet on him coming back from. He got stunned and laid on his ass from a Walcott counter, I wouldn't bet on him taking the heaviest punch of all time straight on the chin and getting back up more than once. Let's not forget that he put Holmes out on the floor cold, if it wasn't Larry, any other man would've been done. The only men otherwise that came back from a knockdown to take out Shavers were Lyle, who was able to also take big shots from Foreman and get up, Mercado, who had odd durability (Knocked out by Weaver, Tate, and Spinks but somehow came back against Shavers, I guess he was more resilient against big shots), the iron chinned Cobb, and a young James Tillis.

You keep saying "one punch" as if Shavers came at you just swinging his right over and over like a club.

And again, against the most destructive puncher of all time, who says that Marciano makes it to deep waters? It would be less of an uphill battle and more of a steep cliff.

 

You’re fighting a losing argument dude. I’m not going to argue against Marciano hanging in with a foreman or Liston..but he’s beating shavers and I’d bet my mortgage on it.

shavers had severe deficiencies in his game..deficiencies in which Marciano possessed an abundance in. Shavers did not own physical tools nor genetic traits at a critical advantage over Marciano.

You brought up him taking 60 punches by quarry as if it were a badge of honor. Guess what…he’s going to have to take DOUBLE that when Marciano smells blood. Watch round 6 vs Moore. By the way, Marciano is more than capable of taking shavers out early.

We’re not discussing a common 185lb man. Marciano was uncommon. Shavers was not great in any sense beside extraordinary power, and you need more than one trick pony to defeat a Marciano.

 

I guess if I'm "fighting a losing argument" then I'll leave you to it.

You're the man, SuzieQ.

 

I can’t remember watching a shavers fight where he wasn’t sucking wind..

just imagine..what would happen if shavers were to become tired in the ring vs Marciano. He is beyond royally screwed.

 

you’re certainly most welcome to defend your case although I sense Reluctance on your part given you did give Rocky a strong chance to win in your original post

the difference between you and I..you seem to lump shavers and Lyle together..where as I don’t

I think Lyle possesses superior height, reach, weight, durability than shavers which give him a much greater chance to defeat Marciano

 

On the other hand Lyle's ring IQ was non-existent. Shut out by an unrated Jimmy Young, didn't learn from his mistakes, and somehow did even worse in the rematch.

Also lost nearly every round to Quarry.

Shavers beat (an admittedly green) Jimmy Young once and drew with him in a rematch.

Lyle was also taken the distance by a washed unrated Ellis, while Shavers knocked out a fresher, #3 ranked Ellis (albeit past prime) in the first round.

 

Rocky almost always has a chance, it's not exactly reluctance.

The only thing I'd give to Lyle is resilience and weight, as, even if he is taller than Shavers, he lacks the same power or reach (Shavers has an 79" reach, Lyle has a 76" reach), which makes Lyle likely have to try and fight to a decision, which is just not good against Marciano. The later rounds are his territory, and a decision will almost always go towards him, so Lyle has more of a chance to lose than Shavers does in my mind.

Shavers has a way out, whereas Lyle doesn't. If you wanna bring up Quarry again, he badly hurt Lyle multiple times and worked him towards a unanimous decision, which Marciano could easily replicate.

The reason that I don't believe that Rocky could replicate what Quarry did against Shavers is because he didn't fight like that, he didn't come out blazing with fast combinations, and even if he could swarm Shavers later, it wouldn't have the same effect. Power puncher Bernardo Mercado had to wait 8 to get a TKO against an aging Shavers, and had to take fierce knockdown during the course of that fight.
And if Marciano is going to have to take many rounds of punishment and crushing rights, I'm going to bet against him. I thjnk that Shavers simply is too strong, and Marciano's chin is not proven enough against this caliber of punchers to make it through against Shavers.

Lyle, I'm all for Marciano, Shavers, not so much.

 

I voted ‘Yes’ but it’s not without some trepidation. I’m not too worried about Shavers & Foster, frankly. Lyle bothers me more, but I’ll still back Marciano. I think he gets all three inside the distance, were I forced to bet on it. As it stands, I wouldn’t.

 

Yes but apart from Shavers who Quarry surprisingly stopped early he was a counter puncher who boxed smartly vs the likes of Lyle.

Marciano as I said is an aggressive swarmer and he would be in the lions den exchanging punches vs huge hitters.

Swarmers stylistically don't really much up well against punchers and someone like Lyle for example would be considerably bigger than Marciano.

I'm not the most knowledgeable on Marciano but I don't believe he fought any notable Heavyweight punchers over 200 pounds except for Joe Louis who was shot by that time.

 

Foster was a fairly average big guy/slugger for a HW. Neither his record nor his on camera skills were particularly impressive. There's 1-3 Fosters in practically every HW era. I would say Rocky has trouble early adjusting to the size difference, then manages to get inside, hammer the body, and stops Foster semi late maybe around the 8-10th round but he'll have to eat some heavy shots before getting the job done.

Shavers...man that's a very crazy matchup for either guy. You have all out offense, a guy who put all his XP points into raw power in Shavers, while Rocky who put like half his XP into stamina and the other half into power. Neither guy can fight any other way than coming forward guns a blazing. Both guys had accuracy issues and could get sloppy and wild (although Shavers had underrated timing). Neither guy has very good defense, but Shavers was more cautious and went into his shell when hurt. What it boils down to is if Rocky can survive the early thunderstorm...and it's one hell of a storm. Rocky has the better chin and stamina, but he never got hit by anything close to Shavers combination of raw power and reckless aggression. On the other hand, Shavers could be vulnerable early and lesser boxers than Rocky did manage to either finish him in the early rounds or outlast him. Gonna have to say Rocky should be favored to win. But with Rocky's very aggressive style, leaky defense, smaller size, willingness to brawl, and tendency to cut, anything could. Gun to my head, Rocky wins 70% of the time by KO within 4-6 rounds, but he'll probably need to get off the floor to do it and will be in bad shape.

Now Lyle is a different beast altogether. He was clueless when it came to fighting the slickers and counter punchers, but was always entertaining and did good with swarmers and brawlers. I guess the closest thing to a Rocky fight was Lyle's march with Bonavaena who was a slightly bigger but less talented version of Rocky. Unfortunately there's no footage, but we do know that the two men basically traded for 12 rounds in a back and forth brawl. Lyle was able to climb off the canvas to beat the hard hitting Shavers. He is bringing a decent thudding jab, a strong right hand, solid chin, tons of heart, good stamina, decent fundamentals. What Rocky could exploit are Lyle's lack of imagination/versatility and that his guard could sometimes be bypassed. I am not saying Rocky would lose and I would in fact slightly favor him to win. But unlike Foster and Shavers, I would not be confident betting a single cent on Rocky if Lyle is in shape and determined to win. It isn't just the size difference, Lyle was courageous as hell and Rocky never came close to facing a big man with that combination of power, skill, and heart.

So I'm gonna say...I don't know if Rocky goes undefeated. Maybe, maybe not. He clears 2/3 most likely (although the shavers fight is dangerous), but as for Lyle I can't confidently state Rocky wins for sure, only that he should be the favorite based on his more impressive overall track record and resume.

 

Hard to top this analysis.

It's a shame that we never got to see Rocky vs. one of the more distinguished big men of his era, like Nino Valdes or Bob Baker - that would give us a great barometer for judging how he would perform in these fights.

 

Speaking of Valdez, I think he was better than Lyle tbh. More skilled by far, and did far better against Machen, and Moore than Lyle could ever dream of.