Rocky Marciano vs ?

Foreman's handspeed was probably better than you're giving him credit for. He definitely punched fast enough to hit Marciano... The difference in power and the effect thereof would be telling.

 

While I agree Foreman was no speed demon, I'm not sure he needs to be here. Rocky ain't going anywhere. He's going to pitch his tent in the centre of the ring and go at it with Foreman.
Certainly, Foreman's lack of speed didn't hinder him against Frazier, whom he managed to tag with almost everything he threw that night. I often find that odd actually, how Frazier could duck, slip or parry much of what the speedy Ali launched his way, yet he was virtually defenceless against Foreman's slower punches.

In any event, I think the fight is won or lost when Rocky starts fighting off the back foot. Swarmers need forward momentum to be effective, and if Marciano's going backwards, he's going to lose.
This is key for me. And you know what? There has never been a fighter that could make George take a step backwards, at least not consistently. So something, or rather someone, is going to give. And for the first time in his life, it's going to be Rocky.

Personally, I think there is a marked size difference between the fighters - 30 to 35 lbs. - and several inches in height. In this type of fight, it's going to be telling.

 

But the key difference is that they had given ground to Marciano. He was the predator, not the prey. He chased them, put them under pressure. Big George is going to stand right there and throw bombs. He pushed fighters back to get his range, and although it's most noted in the Frazier fghts, he did it against Lyle and a few others as well - just one of his habits I guess.
When George connects with one of those sledgehammer blows, Rocky has a choice. Gut it out in a give and take battle, or think about taking a step back and regrouping. I can't see either scenario being advantageous for Marciano.

Well, fair enough. BUT...although underrated defensively (as Pontius' great video proved) it's not like Rocky never got it. He got hit plenty. For a few rounds the brawl with Carmine Vingo was very touchy, until Rocky got him in the 6th.
As for his accuracy...yes, it developed in later years, but he still had lapses where he was unbelievably sloppy and wild, even during his comparatively refined years.
In any case, I think Marciano, when feeling George's power and put under great pressure by George, would revert back to the sloppy, wild brawler he had been earlier in his career as that was his instinctive style.

Fair enough mate. Nobody knows for sure - it's purely hypothesis. But nobody though at the time the tough Frazier would be abused like a glorified punching bag, yet look what happened.

 

Maybe the fact that Cockell was 27 and Walcott was at least 38 had something to do with it?

 

Amazing how with that "very limited speed " , George managed to stop anybody really,what was it? 68 kos in 81 fights.

 

Cus D'Amato was adamant it was suicide swarm and come to Frazier, and several decades that saw the man fight will testify to this.

I'll take his word for it.

 

There are similarities, though. Frazier was knocked down twice by Bonavena, and up until the Foreman fight showed a sturdy chin; Rocky was down twice in his career as well, so why is Rocky above being jumped on and stopped? Someone might have said the same thing about Frazier if he hadn't fought George. I'm sure before the Foreman fight people found it hard to imagine Frazier getting bounced all around like that, so why is Rocky above such consideration?

 

Frazier was also dropped by Mike Bruce.

 

Rocky does not move fast enough to get to Ali. He just wouldn't be able to close the distance and would be eating jabs as he pressed. Marciano would make a fight of it in the late rounds but it would be too little too late and Ali is too durable to get taken out by him.

Frazier is bigger and faster. He also has great stamina and in a hard fight I would expect Frazier to just have the edge.

Foreman and Tyson have the ability to finish Marciano before he knows what's hit him but if they haven't done the job after 5 rounds I'd back Rocky to beat them. Tyson believed Marciano to be vastly overrated and might take him lightly...

Holmes would be the grudge match. Both men would have a point to prove. I can see both men going down (Rocky early and Holmes late) but i think Holmes would win the majority of the rounds.

 

No one beats Marciano.

He shuts Ali's mouth for him

He hands Holmes his liver

He Clobbers Frazier to a pulp

He Lamblasts Dempsey

He He waits for Foreman to feast, then has him for dinner

He Kills Tyson

He pummels Wlad

He mauls Valuev and Peter on the same night.

 

Dont think so............cockell was a fat bum. walcott was great. you want to talk agout age.....I watched the young marciano outslug outwork outhustle outgrit the young 23 year old slugger rex layne.

 

ahhh but marciano has the clear two fisted power edge. thats big when were matching two swarmers....I also think marciano was stronger than frazier. still a very close fight

 

some good disusssions so far.......keep it up