Rocky Marciano vs ?

Rocky has the right hand but Frazier has the left hook. Joe only negelcted the right later in his career.

 

Cockell had an illness that made him look like that. he was really a light heavy but the illness made him hold water and so he had to fight at heavy. He was an accomplished fighter who stood up well when overmatched. calling a fighter a bum is pretty low down IMO and Marciano himself did not tolerate any kind of put downs on former pros.

Rocky should probably have been disqualified in the Cockell fight. he was just about to hit Don with the stool when it was called off.

 

Marciano didnt think Cockell was a fat bum ,he thought he was a brave man and he said "my best punches didnt seem to affect him",he also said Cockell was" the only guy I fought who was smaller than me" .Cockell had a bad case of glandular fever that screwd up his metabolism prior to that he was a good Light heavy but after his illnes he could never control his weight .Cockell took Rocky's best shots ,including those when he was on the floor ,the elbows and low punches without complaint ,his manager pleaded with him to quit ,but he refused . Cockell knew the ninth was the end for him but he went out on his shield.It ill behoves a poofy wrestler like yourself who spends his time on the mat smelling another guys arse,locked in all sorts of embraces ,to call any brave fighter a fat bum ,Don Cockell was a brave and very decent man.

 

I never smelled any man's arse when I wrestled, and wrestling is every bit as tough a sport as boxing, but the arm pit odor was sometimes a tad offensive.

 

I'm just trying to cast a fly over Suzie to see if he rises to the bait,but I dont like the term bum when talking about a fighter ,especially a brave one who took his beating without quitting,Marciano ruined Cockell.

 

Well, SuzieQ feels that Holmes feasted on ham and eggers, so what can I tell ya. He has his opinions and so do we all. Cockell obviously made the best of what he had and that's all we can credit him for.

 

Rocky also had a devastating left hook, and frazier had no knockout right hand

 

G

 

I might make some people a little upset with my opinions but I honestly feel that Rocky would be out of his league fighting most if not all of the modern HW champions. Rocky was certainly just as tough and well conditioned as any of the modern greats(or past greats for that matter) but size and speed would do him in I feel. Let's face it, Rocky NEVER met an opponent who combined both size and speed like Ali or Holmes or Tyson or Holyfield or perhaps even Lewis or Wlad. Rocky was accustomed to fighting men who were generally around six feet tall and 175-200lbs (Walcott,Charles,Moore,Layne,Matthews, etc..) not highly skilled and big HW's such as Ali,Holmes etc...men who were 6'3"plus and 210-220lbs with 80"reaches who threw potent jabs and fast combinations to boot. Most of Rocky's opponents were there to be hit. Ali and Holmes would'nt be. Tyson and Frazier would be but could Rocky truly survive an all out war with either one? Maybe but I'm not convinced he could. Ali and Liston ushered in the era of the modern boxer/athlete much the same way that Chamberlain and Kareem changed the game of Basketball forever. Athletes were bigger and more athletic than thier predecessors and there was no looking back. Could a 5'10" 185lb 69" reach warrior like Rocky meet and defeat todays modern giants? You have to give him a chance of course but I feel that he is too size disadvantaged. How would he reach a prime Ali's chin and constantly slip his jab, or Holmes' for that matter? Could he get close enough to Lewis who was even bigger and hit harder than Holmes or Ali? Would Rocky's punches have the same effect on these men as they did on say Harry "Kid" Matthews who weighed 175lbs. Rocky never met a true puncher in his own class. He would against Tyson or Foreman or Dempsey. What would happen then? I'm not trying to demean Marciano in any way, shape, or form. He is unquestionably an all time great but we can't let nostalgia cloud our better judgement. Let's give him his due for what he did in his own time which was remarkable. Anyone out there share my sentiments?

 

A well balanced post...

I will also ad, ( though some will say its immaterial ), that Marciano's best wins not only came against fighters who were generally smaller than top raters of later periods, but also up there in age. Of course I agree that Walcott, Louis, Moore, and Charles were still very competitive and the best rated fighters around, but lets face it, age DOES MATTER in most cases. Imagine going from fighting a 6'0" tall, 195 LB, 38 year old Walcott to fighting a 6'5", 225 Lb, 25 year old Riddick Bowe who had never lost or was never floored in his first 34 fights, had Eddie Futch in his corner and a hell of an amatuer career to boot. How many guys can we honestly say that Marciano fought like that? Some will say that Bowe looked bad against Tony Tubbs and Andrew Golata, but neither of those men fought the very best version of Bowe and nor did they have anything in common with Rocky anyway..

Marciano needs to be credited for his legacy, but left out of head to head fantasy matchups.

 

I share these sentiments, but at the same time, there are not many people in history like Ali, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis or Wlad.

If Rocky were 2" taller, had 6" more in reach, and had 20 pounds more in weight with the same percentage of body fat on him, I'd give him a better chance. I think most people would.

The " IF " version of Marcaino I described would be a shade over 6' feet tall, have a 74" reach and weight about 205 pounds. This is still a small heavyweight, but far bigger than 5’10” 68” reach and 185 pounds.

Too small, too slow, too light, and merely solid skills make it tough for Rocky to beat a #1 modern gun even though you know Rocky could hit hard and fight all night long.

While Marciano was a swamer, he was not dynamic with his feet in terms of closing the gap or quick with reflexes the way Dempsey, Frazier or Tyson were. Therefore a top boxer in his prime with a good chin would not be easy for Rocky, and a big puncher with a good jab and greater height and reach would also not be easy for Rocky.

Rocky could only fight well one way, and that is cathcing up to his man, and getting into range.

I also think limiting the rounds from 15 to 12 hurts Rocky's chances of mounting comebacks. Marciano's stamina and guts are all time. It’s a good thing they were. He needed 110% effort to defeat slightly past their prime versions of Charles and Walcott.

 

I don't share these sentiments. I talked with Rocky's brother personally and goody petronelli and they told me if rocky was fighting today that he would be 20-30lb heavier, with modern training/nutrition they told me they would have rocky come in at a muscular rock solid 205-210lb.


Rocky had a very unique style that made it extremley difficult for the bigger taller men to hit him in his very unpredictable ackward crouch. Most guys didnt have the athletiscm to hit him down their without leaving themselves off balance and wide open for marciano to counter. I also think Rockys workrate, stamina, are 2nd to none and combine that with his unbelieable physical strength and power and most top big men of ladder eras would be broken down by the rock before the 15th round. Marciano literally had the strength of a 250lb, their one things every single one of marcianos opponents said "He was by far the strongest i ever fought." and most of these opponents fought 225lb + men. I think you should watch marcianos fight against 6'2 215lb joe louis to see how marciano would handle a modern sized fighter. Watch how he deals with louis jab, how he weaves in on the much bigger foe, how he pushes the bigger foe around, how much his punches have effect, how effect his defense is, how durable he is taking punches from the much bigger foe

 

who wouldn't need 100% to beat charles and walcott? I also must mention both possessed stylistic problems for marciano. Look how much less trouble marciano had with a young swarmer workhorse like rex layne or a big jabbing slugger like old joe louis.

how do you see marciano vs clarence henry and nino valdez turning out?

I think your underselling marciano here. He was just as effective as cutting off the ring as those above. I also think Rocky's physical strength was on a different level than dempsey and fraziers, but this is strictly my opinion. I think Rocky's willingness to be alot more patient and methodical coming in would serve him far greater against big punchers than frazier and dempsys constant moving forward reckless wild style that is bound to get them blown away(see firpo and foreman)....

These kind of fighters wouldnt be easy for anyone including mr. larry holmes. consider how much holmes struggled vs his top opponents. Mike weaver was 6'0 202lb not far off marcianos size and around the same size as jersey joe, he gave larry holmes hell.