Rocky Marciano with Ali's competition: Does he stay undefeated?

I like yours too Chok.

 

The better question is does Rocky stay alive. Ali faced Foreman in his fourteenth year of boxing professionally. Rocky is coming out of a six year retirement.

 

Then how did Dempsey and Louis fight so many guys that size?

Maybe it was just a bad era or Rocky's management wasn't too eager to put him in there with them?

 

Did you actually see the knockdown? It was brutal, and Snipes is not even that great a puncher.

Yes, Holmes fought big guys, he was also beaten by a little one. Holmes never foguht anyone with the stamina of Marciano. Whole different ballgame for him.

 

He won. You are docking points from Holmes for actually getting off the floor and winning. Rocky was dropped by 2 ancient old men, one of whom was a light heavyweight.

Leon Spinx and Norton had similar stamina to Marciano.

 

No, no they didn't, and Leon never trained after a time.

Holmes is the one who actually lost to a LHW, and yeah, I am pointing out that Holmes struggeld mightily against vastly inferior fighters.

 

Those guys were mostly not elite. The vast majority of Joe Louis and Jack Dempsey challengers were no bigger than 190. As I said, elite fighters were rarely getting much bigger than 190 until advances made it possible.

I don’t think Rockys era was any worse of an era than it was when Dempsey and Louis were champions. As champion, the top ten dictated who challenged for the title. His management prevented Marciano defending any lower than the number two rated contender.

 

Agreed

 

"The vast majority of Joe Louis challengers were no bigger than 190".

17 of Joe Louis's 24 title defences were against fighters who weighed in excess of 190lbs.

 

Rocky Marciano trying his non Marquess of Queensberry rule rough housing against the likes of Foreman, that would not end well for Rocky.

 

Leon at his prime and Norton especially had some of the best cardio in the history of the HW division. I would argue Norton might even be top 10.

Holmes was old when he lost to Spinx, who was not a "vastly inferior" fighter. Spinx was a HOF level guy before he even fought Holmes. And again, it's hilarious you're going on and on about Spinx being a LHW when Rocky spent the majority of his career feasting on LHWs and went life and death with guys like Moore and Charles. Rocky retired af 32. He was a young man fighting old men while Holmes was an old man fighting yong men. Such as when a 40 year old Holmes schooled Mercer.

 

Carnera and Baer were elite and a former champions. Buddy Baer and Simon were ranked opponents in the top 10.

Willard was the world champion when Dempsey beat him. Fulton was in his prime and actually favored to beat Dempsey. Weren't Firpo and Fulton ranked too?

I never said the majority of Louis and Dempsey's. All I said was that they fought multiple big men considered elite back then, which they did. And they were strangely absent on Rocky's resume.

We've been over this. The fact that shopworn guys pushing 40 were the elites of that era is a bit strange, especially since Walcott, Charles, Moore, etc were dominating their younger peers and keeping the title hostage.

This would be like if Foreman, Holmes, and Witherspoon kept the titles hostage in the 90's and were regularly knocking out the young contenders. It would make the 90's look bad.

 

I have...terrible news for you...

 

I'm not sure he would even go .500 during the tougher stretches of Ali's career. He would be a poor man's Bonavena, a regional attraction who might get a transitory title shot based on his ethnicity.. a Dave Zygiewicz type of guy who ends up being a footnote.

 

Neither guy was prime when Homes got them. Leon was in full career spiral.

Michael Spinks was a HOL LHW.

Holmes was not old. He fought on for over a decade.

It was Larry who lost to a LHW. Not Rocky.