Rocky Marciano, Your Thoughts?

I find Rocky very difficult to rate as the legend is so huge. I feel in the non Classic world he is either wildly overrated or dismissed as a bum. I feel he is fairly rated here (from my research) as a tough as nails, heart of a lion guy with a massive punch who was more skilled than given credit for and used his limitations to his advantage, who was probably quite lucky in when he came up through the ranks. As the years have gone by I think he has dipped a bit P4P but is still highly regarded but has probably nose dived as far as H2H, particularly for younger fans. I don't think any other former HW champ of his standing seems to suffer so much from modern fans feeling he would be simply bowled over by today's leviathans. I think like other icons (like Elvis!) from another era he is attacked for what he is perhaps seen to represent or his fans represent but this is not really fair.

I feel he definitely came along at the perfect time, a few years earlier or later and he would not have been unbeaten IMO (even if still a champ). He certainly retired at the right moment and his knowing when to exit is much of his legend. He is also hard to rate due to the size discrepancy I mentioned earlier. I feel it is easier just to think of his as a great fighter without worrying too much about his specific weight class as any fantasy match ups get into the tangle of weighing in methods, discussions of if Rocky has modern training methods, PEDs etc etc how effective he would be. In reality a modern Marciano would no longer be Marciano.

I suppose it could be argued that he was also lucky that his best opponents were older and slightly faded and the division as a whole was not at it's best. But this has been leveled at every champion from Joe Louis to Mike Tyson to Larry Holmes so I don't feel is that valid an argument, considering I don't think he seemed to duck anyone of note on the way up or as champ.

I did a top 10 of HWs recently and he didn't make it but was certainly hovering between 15 - 10 region. This is because (I imagine like others) try and combine P4P with H2H and then any other significant factors. I also take into account some slightly unquantifiable things like heart and guts. Rocky had a ton of both and while not scientifically assessable I feel confident that a fighter with huge quantity both could win against the Akinwandes and Seldons of this world despite any physical disadvantages!

 

Oh no.

 

He slotted in nicely between prime Louis’ era and Liston’s prime/ emergence of Clay/Ali.
As a fan of the Great Rocky, all I can say is thank **** for that!

 

I rate him at #5 at HW, all time.

My criteria entirely excludes cross era fantasy fights & focuses solely on what each fighter actually did in their own era.

He is way short of Ali & Louis, and also short of Holmes & Lewis, in a combination of title reigns/defences & quantity of ranked contenders beaten.

Others arguably have superior best wins, too, but for me this is offset by Marciano's dominance in never losing. All any fighter can do is dominate the era in which they competed.

I'm not into cross era, fantasy fights H2H, but when I read the posts of others, I suspect he's typically a little overrated in this regard, as a HW, & typically a little underrated in this regard, from a P4P perspective.

People often conflate greatness (what a fighter actually did in their own era) & cross era, fantasy fight, H2H standing. Rocky wouldn't compete at HW from the 80's onwards, but that doesn't diminish what a great HW he was in his own era, imo.

 

Nice one Greg.

 

I rate him anywhere from 11-15 in the list of the atgs hw

 

I rate him No. 5 all time over some people who IMO would easily defeat him, probably knock him out, head to head. Simply because he was so dominant and so special in the specific time and place in which he existed as a fighter, to the exclusion of any other time or place that's ever been. That greatness must be acknowledged.

I think Rocky symbolizes that time and place, an era before things got very complicated, to a lot of people.

I think the fact that he excelled in that time and place through determination and perseverance, when he lacked physical tools, appeals to a lot of people.

I think the fact that he was so entertaining a fighter appeals to a lot of people. In a strange sort of way, I liken him to Nolan Ryan. Nolan Ryan IMO was the most unique and entertaining pitcher in the history of MLB. People adore the guy, I was on another sports board the other day when the question was asked, "Who's your favorite baseball player," and I daresay 85% to 90% of the responses were "Nolan Ryan." And his true acolytes, if you go to any serious baseball discussion boards, will literally fight you, damn you, belittle you or threaten you trying to argue that he was the GOAT, and will accuse you of giving him "no respect" unless you agree with them.

When he wasn't close to being the GOAT. And neither was Rocky.

 

He was exciting to watch and had an awesome record. I think he’s worthy of top five but no higher than about three

 

I think that us classic folk rate him fairly.
Prior to the era of Muhammad Ali I would have rated Rocky around fourth or fifth greatest ever heavyweight with only Johnson,Dempsey,Louis and maybe Tunney above him. He's obviously dropped since then with the likes of Ali,Liston,Frazier,Foreman,Holmes,Tyson,Lewis etc jumping ahead of him. If it came down to sheer toughness,Marciano would be right up there still.

 

My thoughts?

Here we go again.