Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Sep 15, 2023.
The 15th Rocky threads since July twelfth. Two threads a week, basically. Good old Rock.
---Rocky Marciano knew when to retire...
That's my first reaction.
I think the guy is underrated. Especially the work he put into his training.
Overrated work ethic. His training camps were merely an excuse to get away from Barbara and generally consisted playing ping pong, taking walks and napping.
I think he is a Great fighter, though not a Stand Out, in that I think he is a great among many.
today he would be a S-MW cum L-HW and over the course of Boxing History there are many a normal size L-HW & HW that could/would beat him, though 'most' would know they were in a Fight.
Great but not an Elite, like say a Louis or SRR or Ali or Tyson among others.
a TOP Man for sure.
Simultaneously the most overrated and underrated heavyweight of all time.
Marciano is the most talk about boxer on this forum. He is rated where he is at. NUMBER 1.
Quite possibly the most overrated heavyweight of all time. 3 classic heavies are the most well known by the general audience: Ali, Tyson and Rocky.
Videos about him get more views than any other heavyweight not named Ali or Tyson. He is considered by many to be the GOAT of the heavyweight division because of his 49-0 even though his opposition was abysmal.
He is regarded as an H2H monster even though 40 year old light heavies were repeatedly taking him to the brink of defeat.
Nonetheless, I think he is great, but his recent recognition is unwarranted and there's no reason for him to be thought of more highly than Louis, Dempsey, Frazier or Holyfield.
Might as well just cut and paste what I wrote in the last go around...
Look, fighters are judged by what they accomplish IN THEIR OWN TIME, and Marciano retired 49-0 with with an absolutely nuts 88% knockout ratio. He beat legends Joe Louis, Ezzard CharlesX2, Joe WalcottX2, and Archie Moore. He beat top contenders Don Cockel, Harry Matthews, Rex Layne, and Roland LaStarzaX 2. He beat former contenders Lee Savold, Tom Shkor, Bernie Reynolds and Phil Muscato.
He had an excellent chin with only two flash knockdowns. He developed his own style which used two-fisted power, a low attack, and insane stamina to compensate for lack of height and reach, and due to his legendary training dedication, he could throw 95 punches in the fifteenth round of a fight.
Were Louis, Charles, Walcott and Moore at their best? No.
Was it an era of huge, dreadnaught heavies? No.
Would we like to have seen him fight a big man like Nino Valdez? Sure.
But the bottom line is, the haters can hate. What he accomplished was truly remarkable. Him and Lewis are tied as my #3 heavy.
Since people who actually knew him, like Lou Duva, said that he worked harder on his days off than most fighters work in camp, this can be considered absolute rubbish.
I think Seamus was joking!
Btw who are your 1 and 2 at HW?
A few years back...Ring Magazine had Marciano at #4 all time...behind Ali...Joe Louis...and Jack Johnson. "He was relentless...could punch like hell...could take a punch...and he had a will of iron!". "When his character was tested...nobody was better!" Tyson was ranked #9 on the list...and Liston was ranked #10.
I have previously cited two published, highly detailed articles on two, separate training camps. The schedule was far from rigorous. Lots of napping, a light morning jog, half hour of gym work, card playing, more napping. It almost gives more credence to him being a natural talent that didn't require all the training.
There will always be criticism about Rocky Marciano, many will holler about his resume, he was not tall or heavy enough etc. But let's look at this with common sense and adults, Marciano was undefeated, he fought whoever was put in front of him, he did not go crowing like the later champions, calling out opponents like in the WWE. Rocky had a great work ethic, was in condition for his fights. Marciano behaved himself in public, not like many of the defeated steroid using clowns of today, who fight whenever they feel like it. Size does not matter in a fight, I have seen smaller guys in the ring take care of some pretty clumsy tall opposition. Rocky always gave praise to the opponents that he battered. Marciano grew up with less than some later champions, he was a good family man, not some cheap two timing man like the fighter of today that cry about money, picking and choosing who they are going to fight. Realistically Marciano cannot fatten his record and fight past and future opponents, or have gone into the ring weighing 300 lbs like todays fighters. His style indicated his will to win, taking some on the chin to land some of his own, he fought through some adversity, prone to bleed during some tough bouts, being decked twice in his career but yet arose from the knockdowns to come away with victories, there a few champions that were kayoed by their opponents that are now considered Gods. Marciano was a classy champion, 49-0, 43 KOS, not many could retire undefeated.
I have spent many sorry years making the same arguments to different idiots, and none of them seem to have got any wiser.
Perhaps it is time for a frozen conflict , like at the end of the Korean War?