Rocky Marciano, Your Thoughts?

He definitely was. Before he even had Louis badly hurt for the finish he was stumbling after missing by several inches in multiple rounds throwing wild baseball pitch punches. I didn't see any of this "clever attempts to swing wide on purpose to catch the opponent off guard"--Louis was safely out of range and blocking to avoid the follow up shot when Rocky missed. Lastarza and Walcott also made him look pretty bad and were also out of range for the follow up when he missed.

Nat Fleischer noted that even when Rocky did have an opponent hurt, such as against Moore against the ropes, he was missing some wide open shots and he might've finished the fight sooner if he had better accuracy and timing.

Peter Marciano and Goldman provide many ring side comments about how awkward and clumsy Rocky could be from his amateur days to his first pro fight all the way to when he was facing contenders.

This is exactly what I was talking about when I said some people just ignore his flaws and pretend he was a combat genius. He did sometimes show underrated skill and clever maneuvers, but Rocky could definitely be sloppy even at his best.

 

I think you imagine correctly Shay, I have Dempsey at #14 and am in a minority who rank below Wills, my #13.

 

Rocky was a freak, in fact it would be best to avoid him or get knocked out!

 

Marciano was a very adaptable and hungry fighter. As far as heavyweight champions go a top 5 rating seems about right.

Here is Barney Ross giving his opinion on Johansson, Liston, Marciano, Dempsey, Tunney, Robinson, and Armstrong.

Barney Ross, who picked Ingemar Johansson to strip Floyd Patterson of his heavyweight championship, told members of the Holy Name Society of Our Lady Help of Christians last night that the result will be the same when they meet again, but Johansson might end it in a round earlier.

"Johansson isn't a great fighter, but he is a good puncher," Ross asserted. "I don't care who he fights in the next two years, he won't be beaten."

After Johansson and Patterson, Ross listed Sonny Liston as his No. 3 heavyweight.

"Liston is the best heavyweight I have seen in the last three years, but I don't think Johansson will fight him," Ross Said.

He didn't explain why he thought Liston would be sidetracked.

He said he was certain Rocky Marciano would not fight again. He told me only recently he had no plans to make a comeback and he brought laughs from the listeners when he said:

"If Marciano comes back, I'll return to the ring also."

He said Marciano was the best puncher he ever saw.

"He was a murderer in the ring," he insisted. " I saw him come back and win three bouts in which he was losing with one punch.

"Jack Dempsey was the greatest all-around heavyweight he has seen, but Gene Tunney was the best boxer."

The former lightweight and welterweight champion, who does not wear either an overcoat or hat in the coldest weather, also listed Sugar Ray Robinson as on of the greats of all time.

"Pound for pound there have been no greater fighters," he said.

Asked if he though Robinson would beat Paul Pender if they meet again, he replied:

"He will not only bet him, but he will knock him out in any round he elects."

Ross said he though Robinson could have knocked him out in their recent Boston fight. "I though Sugar Ray won it," he told the crowd.

And then he said that Robinson has been hand-picking opponents for the last three years.

"His greatest fight? It was the one he lost to Henry Armstrong, who beat 'my brains out.'
He must have thrown 8,000 punches and I didn't miss a single one. I only fought him once and that was enough."

Asked to rate the heavyweights he has seen in order he placed Dempsey first.

He also predicted that Gene Fullmer would knock out Pender if they meet. Fullmer he said, has plenty of heart.

Others on the speaking program were the Rev. Francis J. Buechler, pastor of Our Lady Help of Christians Church, Al Marropodic, Holy Name Society president; Tony Ravida, chairman of the smoker committee, Ben Becker, manager of the U.S. Olympic boxing team, and Charles Young.

Bob Bender was master of ceremonies. He appealed for the group to contribute to a collection for the Albany Sports New March of Dimes and Joe Anderson reported a collection of $79.60.

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. Probably one of the hardest hitting sub 200 pounders ever

. One of the most entertaining boxers of all time

. Great stamina

. Underrated head movement/defense

. Fought the best of his time even if that time wasn't so great for heavyweights.

. Sometimes looked crude such as when trying to finish Don Cockell but overall not as much as some like to claim.

. Great heart and recovery ability

. Doesn't fare so well H2H against greats that came after him and even some SHW's that were never champions due to the physical disadvantages he has in height/reach/weight etc would likely have been a SM/LHW if around today.

. Would have him on my side in a bar fight over most boxers.

 

A guy who many love to hate because he retired undefeated. He was a 184 lb. "heavyweight" who is always compared to larger heavyweights. He'd be a cruiserweight by modern standards. How he would have done against bigger guys like Holmes, Ali, Foreman... I don't know.

I think it's unfair to compare him with those. Maybe some he could have taken, other's no. He fought what was there at the time and did what he had to do. That's all you can ask.

 

With weight cutting these days he'd have probably been a light heavyweight, he did have some fights weighing under 180 pounds.

 

He is quite clearly trolling. I don't know how it could be any more obvious. The fact that it's riled you up, so much means it's working. I always get a good kick out of it.

 

That's a fair assessment. No, honestly I think Holmes and some of the others like Foreman especially, would have been way too much. Liston though would have been interesting. I give Rocky a chance with him. Yes, he'd still be a smaller guy and Liston could punch, but I don't see the Rock folding like Patterson did. I also question how Liston would be in a long hard fight.

 

This is an overlooked thing when assessing a boxer's abilities. People often say Ali's best fight was Williams or Tyson's against Spinx, and while those fights are amazing displays of power, speed, and technique, the opponents offered them basically no resistance.

I would say Terrel or even Chuvalo did more to push Ali and bring out the best in him in the 60's. As you said, not a lot of champions had "dog fights" similar to Rocky against Walcott/Charles with both guys really pushing each other. Holmes vs Norton is a good one, or Holyfield vs Dokes.

 

Well, its not clear because there are bozos on here that make the same argument.

 

Yeah, we can never know for sure if he's trolling.

Quite obvious he says this stuff to get under the skin of Marciano's rabid fan base. It's also quite obvious it's working, judging by your reaction.

 

Whatever, dude. Glad you are having a laugh.

 

Great post. Most people resent Rocky Marciano because they wished that their current favorites could have accomplished what Rocky did, retire undefeated.