Rocky Marciano

Probably an alt that got banned.

 

i laugh when people try to liken jess willard to an athletic 6'6 235+ guy of today haha.

 

I agree with your post but just to play devils advocate can you name me one athletic 6'6 235+ lbs guy in boxing today?

Before you say Klitschko's just know their natural weight is well below 235

 

tua hits harder than marciano and people have gone toe to toe with him for 12. i can think of several heavyweights who can go for 12 rounds on there toes, holyfield in his early days, clay, larry holmes exct...

 

exactly. SHW great fighter's are always gonna be a tough ask for any sub 200 guy to beat.

 

Ali was only 206lb for Liston but even later than this in may 1966 ali came in lighter and was as little as 201lb against Henry Cooper in London. Ali was not 220 pounds until he was well past his best.

Ali fought from 1960 until 1981. His peak was 1964-67. In that time the fighters that gave Ali the most trouble were fighters who started their careers under 190lb. Frazier was under 200lb when he beat Ali.


Ali changed the face of the division because he was a tall SHW framed guy with all the advantages of a smaller faster heavyweight but with the size of bigger man.

Because ali was so big he gave other Big heavyweights hope but the big guys bothered him no more than they bothered all the other classic sized heavyweights. We just ended up with a division where because the champion was over 200lb all the other contenders wanted to be.

The fact is the best 200lb heavyweights ALWAYS used to crucify SHW's. Then in the 1960s Ali had the speed assets of a 176 pounder as a 207 guy. For the first time a 200 pound plus heavyweight dominated the big men. It was not because he was 201-210lb. Its because he had the speed of a smaller man.

By the 1970s Ali was slower but luckily for him the division was growing bigger and everyone else was even slower. I don’t think that might have been the case if there were still so many Doug Jones, Cooper, machen and folley sized guys still around.

If Ali had boxed between 1940 and 1960 he never would have been heavier than 212 his whole career.

 

Dont you think If you get a great SHW under 220lb you get an even better paced, 15 round fighter? You put a lean SHW nearer the weight of a classic sized 200lb heavyweight and you would get a champion closer to being able to compete with ATG champions.

 

That's like saying a mw would be great if you boiled him down to ww.

I'm talking about guys who are great like bowe, lewis, foreman and wlad, just that they are massive.

 

That’s only 4 guys in nearly 40 years and foreman was what 217 at his best?

A middleweight who boils down to welter, isn’t that already happening?

Its not making the middleweight better more a case of all the 5’7’’middleweights are now fighting in a lower weight class.

 

Yes but they've dominated the last 20+ years since Bowe beat Holy.

No because they're not really welterweights, they put it all back on by fightnight... What'd be the point of a hw making weight at 210 but coming in at 230? Heavyweights don't have that pressure.

 

super heavyweight is a myth.

Ali cut less weight because the division was getting bigger and slower. The division was getting bigger and slower because of him being the first 200 plus guy who dominated the heavyweights. If the best guy is over 200 why take so much off?

It was never the slower bigger heavyweights who troubled Ali or the rest of the elite heavyweights pre cassius clay. Once they were all as heavy as him that was it. Then they cut 15 rounds to 12 and they got even heavier. Not taller.

As you say there is no point of a SHW who is facing another SHW weighing in at 210 just so they can both rehydrate another 20lb come fight time - because both would be exactly as encumbered as the other. Neither would be fast fit 15 round fighters before or after the weigh in, nor would they need to be. Its just like all these phoney middleweights hiding in the light welter division. There is no advantage. they are all doing it.

I am just saying, (and I think you would agree) that bowe, Lewis etc would have been better to watch had they been capped at 220lb. Since that represents the very best of the very biggest that would put all the rest of the so called SHW within 12lb or so of Marciano, Dempsey and Joe Louis.

225lb plus heavywights is a very poor division. If you go through history and include only fighters who never scaled less than 225lb you would struggle to find a top 5 never mind a top ten. bonecrusher smith and buster Douglas would be in it!

 

who's to say they'd be more comfortable at that cap?

they should fight at their best possible weight.

plus 220 is more than 12 pounds more than dempsey and rocky

 

Bowe and Lewis would make 220lb if they trained like pre 1970s fighters. All the others would be a lot less. Ali 206 and so forth. Tyson 190 etc.

The best fighting weight is a weight derived from the kind of training you do. boxers are not better since the training methods changed.

Heavyweights used to have the same training programe that middleweights did. They needed it to compete! Anyone who did not train the same got beat up which is why it was so rare for a 240 pounder to make the grade.

Seriously, what is your all time top 5 of heavyweights who never weighed less than 225?

 

they may do, but you can't say for certain.

if they trained for 15 rather than 12, it's fair to assume they'd be a bit lighter, they'd still hold a considerable weight advantage over rocky and dempsey and any other sub 200 pounder

 

I think I can say for certain fighters like Holyfeild, mike spinks, Tua, TYson, Byrd, Moorer, Mercer, David haye would not be more than 200lb. Larry Holmes was 207 when he beat Norton so its fair to say those shorter than Holmes could be even less if they trained like pre 1970s heavyweighs.

Getting back to ATG heavyweights who never weighed less than 225lb .....what is your top 5?