Rocky Marciano's so called punching power

Are you by any chance referring to that Geoff Thompson bloke who's quite famous within martial arts circles nowadays?

 

Not that Geoff, although i have met him a few times over the years.
He is another good example though, not a big guy at all in Doorman terms but christ he could park them on the pavement and a lot of the time it only took one shot to do it.

Thanks for reminding me there as that is another case where one guy can quite readily spark someone very much larger than himself.

 

I wish there was a way to measure power from films, Tommo. You and I can only guess if the punch that kayoed Walcott would kayo Lewis or Holyfield. Even you have said there are so many variables to power, and the timing in that punch was perfect, so it is possible. Lewis was kayoed by hellacious punches twice, wasn't he? Now Rocky reaching him with that power is a different matter!

 

Right, I will explain this to you once.

Yes in some cases you will get a 180lb fighter who has the power to knock out a superheavyweight. It is rare, but perhaps not as rare as a superheavyweight with good co-ordination and fluidity, such as Lewis or Wlad.

Once in a blue moon, you might even get a 170lb fighter who has the power to stop a superheavyweight.

Somtimes a 180lb fighter will have durability comparable to or better than many of the superheavyweights around. James Toney is an obvious example.

 

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Again, the visual guide is not very reliable.

You can get a fighter with heavy muscle mass who has a glass jaw.

Spare fighters usualy don't have the best durability, but there have been notable exceptions.

I tried for many years to link characteristics such as power and durability, to various physical atributes, and ultimately gave it up as a bad job.

 

Not arguing with you but what do the statistics say about taking a punch? Maybe there are statistics that show that after a certain point heavyweight durability starts to decrease, not decrease but plateau if you not what I mean. Maybe smaller fighters take a punch better p4p than heavier fighters. I am generalising here but .... For example it's not likely that you would see a bantamweighjt knocking out a welterweight but it wouldn't be unusual to see a heavyweight knocking out a man 30 pounds heavier than himself.

 

Almost no exceptions.

Then once in a blue moon you get a guy who is such an incredible puncher, that his power almost seems to increase as he steps up in weight and his opponents become a bigger target.

Manny Pacquiao is an example in recent years.

I am not even sure that Rocky Marciano is one of the first people that I would put forward as a candidate for being this type of puncher, but they are part of the argument.

 

Going by your own reasoning, if a featherweight doesn't carry his punch power up to higher weights ie not his natural fighting weight then why would a heavyweight weighing 240 punch harder than he would at his raw boned weight of say 210 pounds.

 

Nielsen beat Bonecrusher Smith when Smith was 39-14-1 and was completely washed up, (KO4). Lionel Butler had already stopped him in the 3rd.

He beat Jeff Lampkin when Lampkin was 38-18-1 and washed up, (WinEight). Lampkin had been stopped in 2 by Hide and in the 1st by Golota.

He beat Tubbs when Tubbs was 40-7, (KO4). Tubbs had already lost to Zolkin and Thunder and had been stopped in the 1st round by Jimmy Ellis (not the former WBA Champ).

He beat DeLeon when DeLeon was 53-7-1, (KO3). DeLeon had already been stopped in the 1st round by Corrie Sanders.

Phil Jackson, Mike Hunter, and Jerry Halstead were all decent borderline contenders at one time, but NOT when Nielsen fought them. Actually, Jackson never really beat anybody but did seem to have potential at one point.

He got a gift vs. a very old Holmes.

He beat Tim Witherspoon when 'Spoon was 46-8, (KO4). Witherspoon had lost his last 3 fights prior to facing Nielsen (clear losses to Donald, Thunder, and Golota). In his next fight after Nielsen he was stopped in the 7th by an old Greg Page.

In his next fight he was stopped by trial horse Dicky Ryan in the 10th round. He beat Ryan by 8th round decision in their rematch. That's right folks, even after 50 pro fights he fought 8 rounders thruout most of his career.

Anyway, I know you really weren't serious... but just in case you were.

Marciano beat a lot of bums, no doubt. He also beat the best of the day... Nielsen did not. Marciano went 7-0 (6) in HW World Title Fights and 6-0 (5) vs. Hall of Famers Louis KO8, Walcott KO13 and KO1, Charles W15 and KO8, and Moore KO9.

Many people like to say that the hall of famers he faced were old. Louis was definately well past prime and Charles was a bit past prime as well but I honestly feel that Walcott and Moore were as good as ever when they faced Marciano. Had Walcott or Moore been younger they still would have been stopped. Louis was still good but probably would have beat Marciano prime vs. prime. Charles was well prepared vs. Marciano but past his best... prime vs. prime I don't know who I would pick.

Marciano was down vs. Walcott and Moore but quickly got up both times and went on to administer beatings to both that resulted in KO wins both times.

Do I think he was the hardest puncher ever? No. I do think his power was comparable to the likes of Dempsey, Louis, Frazier, and some others though.

 

I'll know better than making bar bets with you in Greencastle.

 

Good post. I come from that same walk of life. I've seen plenty of smaller guys beat the **** out of big guys who were well respected bad asses. The right combination of speed, power, durability, and skill go a long way even if you are outweighed by 50 Lbs. My father at age 50 and 175 Lbs. beat the **** out of one of the martial arts instructors for the MD State police. This man was built, about 6'3", 230 Lbs. of muscle, and looked to be about 30. Pops knocked him the **** out (I was there). Dad did some boxing in the Army but did most of his fighting in and around bars near Baltimore back in the 60's and 70's. When he was 61 he beat the **** out a young man who resembeld Chuck Liddell for being disrespectful to the bartender... and a few other reasons.

I know this is different than pro boxing but it's still fun to talk about. Size isn't everything. If the guy is big and has a good mix of speed, power, durability, and skill... chances are he will beat the smaller man who is close to his level in those 4 areas... but not always.

I have little doubt that a guy like Sergio Martinez would easily outbox and maybe even stop a huge bodybuilder or wrestler type of HW who was just starting out as a boxer. Imagine if Brock Lesner became a boxer.

 

Sorry, but I've seen Huck and Afolabi spend 12 rounds swinging at one another with wide punches that could be seen coming from miles away. I've seen Lebedev bust open from slow punches and gas when faced with the advance of a 41 year old man. I've also seen Marciano throw a high volume of punches throughout the course of the fight, deep into the later rounds. And a lot of those punches were delivered more quickly and with better technique than any of the punches that Huck threw against Afolabi or Povetkin. For that matter, Marciano maintained a faster pace than Ademeck has done in many of his fights. Conditioning was one of his strong points, too.

The evidence is there, Tommo. If you choose not to see it, it's your problem...not mine.

 

As we've said before...Marciano can't be judged just by what you can see...and it's an overused cliche'..."It's not the size of the dog in the fight...but the size of the fight in the dog"...you REALLY underestimate Rocky Marciano...dunno why though...met him as a kid...
class guy...humble...soft spoken...BUT...in the ring...look out...

 

Come on Janitor ... there aren't only kids posting here .. let's honestly spell out the whole picture .. it's not simply Marciano haters and gentlemen .. :nono

Marciano was a terrific fighter, dedicated, tough as nails, a murderous puncher and a true warrior .. however he was the only white heavyweight champion from 1937 to the Klitschko Brothers and that has a mjor impact on how he is looked upon by many lovers and haters ... He retired undefeated and pretty much fought everyone that he could but he fought in an era where his greatest competition was all past their best days .. Many of his fans try to build cases that Charles, Walcott, Louis and Moore were all exceptions to age and terrific fighters when Rocky beat them while his haters claim they were nothing when of course the answer lies in the middle .. they were all past their best but still dangerous fighters ..

Marciano is so often described by his hardcore fans as having that something extra, an "it" factor comprised of heart, will, conditioning that simply separates him, even from others greats ( and rational arguments against size, lack of reach, lack of fighting a huge heavyweight puncher, resistance to cuts, act. ) that I find it racist ... to say he had more heart of drive or stamina than a Frazier per say is absurd. They are all in a certain class of over achiever who had to overcome physical handicaps to excel.

While individually anyone can look at Marciano and put race aside you cannot deny that race plays a major role as a whole in how Rocky is viewed by many on both sides, be it hater or hardcore fan and it's not simply black on one side, white on another ... he is unfortunately often a polarizing figure, an icon in a sport with long, deep sociological roots ... putting that crap aside , he simply should be remembered for what he was, a terrific, hard as nails warrior.