Rodrigo Valdez vs Marvin Hagler

His first loss to Watts was debatable, to say the least. Monroe utilised a lot more movement than Valdez ever did (which didn't help him the next two times he met Marvin), and Hagler got cut early by a head-butt and used his head in return, by boxing in intelligent fashion the rest of the way.

 

Through the first ten rounds or so, he pretty much was. To Vito's credit, he came back strong in the last five to make it interesting, but the draw was a pretty generous result for Vito based on what happened over the first two thirds of that contest.

 

All that being said, Valdez is no gimme for Hagler. An on point Marvin has the versatility, chin and stamina to win, but the Columbian has his moments for sure and probably makes it pretty close on the cards.

 

Good post...

 

I think Marvin could win something like a 10-5 decision if Rodrigo doesn't mess with his mind.If he does, who knows what happens, a chicken could fall into the ring and Rodrigo could score an upset decision over Marvin.

 

He wasn't running but playing it safe. he'd been butted early by Briscoe and wanted to avoid the possbility of being stopped on cuts, so he jabbed and moved. shows Marvin's versatility and he won all ten rounds so I dont see what the problem is

 

Hagler was not a hall-of-famer when he fought them. He was a contender. Loses back then just meant that you had to fight the best before you got a shot at the title. When Hagler fought Watts the first time you could have made a win for him and when he fought Briscoe he outboxed him every round. Had the fight gone 15 Briscoe would have been in serious danger off being stopped because Hagler was hitting him with everything.

I remember Monzon being hunted and really having to move against Briscoe. When you faced Briscoe, you have to move away from him to beat him. In that fight it should be understood that Hagler proved himself to be an elite boxer.

When we start talking about Hagler's middleweight title reign I think people see Duran and Hearns as out of there weight classes fighting a natural middleweight and so Hagler had an advantage. To people who discredit Duran I wonder who they would pick against Duran in today's middleweight scene. Cotto? Golovkin? How about those two verus Hearns at middleweight. Both were as solid as contenders can be at the middlewight division, just like Camen Basilio was a bonified middleweight contender.

John Mugabi
Juan Roldán
Mustafa Hamsho
Roberto Duran (32-12-12KO's from 154-168) That means he was boxing his way to wins over champions and a hall-of-famer at middleweight.
Tommy Hearns
etc.

These were all solid contenders that Hagler put away. If Halger resume is questionable how much more is Valdez's?

 

Valdez isn't regarded by most fans as being a lock for top 3 ATG MW, in that context Hagler resume is absurdly thin.

P.S. Roldan > Martinez

 

What intrigues me is Valdez's rise to world class.
Regardless of age, you have to look at his resume.
When Carlos-Rodrigo FINALLY matched BOTH were past prime sadly.
Valdez turned pro in 1962 at the age of 16 and labored in Columbia for years before finally being brought to the US. Lots of wars in Columbia 62-70 which surely is going to take a lot off of a fighter's later year success.
Tho I can easily see a pvp Hagler UD, this would be a great one!
Rodrigo would give ANY great all-time middle hell IMHO.
When he was on he, quite simply, was a slicing, dicing, human wrecking machine! Only weakness? Slow starter and prone to eye cuts. I think Clancy (when he finally got him north) used to tell the refs prior to his fights that he was a lethargical slow starter and to factor that into their judging.
I'll repeat, I want two dogs (with everything) and two beers (with a close bathroom) ringside to see these two prime vs. prime.

 

"Absurdly thin"? Yeah right.

Give me ten middlewieghts with a better resume than Marvelous Marvin Hagler.

• Undefeated for 10 years seven of those years he was Unified and Undesputed Champion.
• 12 defenses 11KO's all over top 10 ranked fighters and two HOF'ers.
• Cleaned out the division and recleaned it from '80-'87.
• His two draws and two loses before the Leonard loss were all revenged by KO's Seales, Watts, Monroe.

Truth is that Hagler is the greatest champion of the 1980's over Holmes, Tyson, Leonard, Hearns, etc. He reigned the longest and beat greater contenders. He was Joe Louis of the middleweight divsion in terms of longevity and KO ratio as champion. He in his pre-championship days was a deserving contender locked out of the title because of politics.He should have had his first shot at least in '77.

 

You missed the point he was making entirely. He was saying in comparison to how relatively unknown Valdez is. That being said Hagler's reign was highlighted by a pretty weak era (which is often the case with a dominant champion in fairness to him).

 

Give me five better era's.

Even if I missed his point you seem to be saving the same thing he is saying. Hagler's reign was weak. Prove it.

Please.

 

As Klompton mentioned you missed the point but in regards to your specific questions and Hagler's era in general sure.

That's the thing ranking critera is subjective and if you're looking at quality of opponents and wins here are 12 MW's

top 4 are indisputable and all of them had far more impressive undefeated streaks. Counting by years doesn't mean everything especially if you're fighting 2 or 3 times a year.

Greb
Gibbons
SRR
Steele

next 5 have losses here and there but its more than acceptable considering the quality of opposition and sheer quantity of those fights in their career. Their overall consistansy and high winning % against superior competition surpasses Hsgler's "impressive statistics" of years or number of defenses.

Williams
Burley
Yarosz
Overlin
Apostoli

McCallum - Lack of overall depth but top 5 wins clearly superior to Hagler's

YC3 & Garcia - both of these guys also had brief stays and with a worse winning % than MCCallum but again their top half dozen wins far surpass Marvin's

teens

20's

30's

40's

50's

Late 80's - mid 90's