Rolando Navarette Vs Chung-Il Choi: How controversial in your opinion?

That Choi was an "on top" fighter, like you alluded to. I thought he had maybe a great straight right hand. And I rarely use the word great. But that thing was straight as an arrow and a dart and I am not surprised he landed it clean so often. It must have been a nightmare fighting the guy knowing you probably couldn't even see that punch coming.

The problem was the division was so deep with guys that weren't "on top" fighters.Man, could those guys hang tough. It has to be so hard to batter guys and land your best shots and the opponent fight back hard like that.

He lost and he was another guy that are like 80% offensive skill and 20% everything else. When that % is altered to even 65%, they just seem to lose the fight. No adjustments or plan B and the other guy is becoming more formidable round by round.

As for the fight, saved by the bell claims I'm not convinced of. It was not going to be easy getting Rolando out of there. Hurt, yes. Stopped? Not convinced of that.

Terrific fight though and I think that division back then and all those tough matchups when everyone actually fought each other is my favorite alltime. Loser wanted to know when the rematch was and it was granted. How many other divisions could have used that mindset and matchmaking for we the fans?

 

I was just yesterday watching Limon vs. Arguello. Limon trades shot for shot w/ Arguello and is giving him BIG probs until the butt cuts him so bad. Limon was a lot better than people think/ I watched it because this weekend is the 30 years ago of Navaratte-Limon. A great fight and a continuation of a series that gets absolutely NO press in the mainstream and never did. Arguello/Limon/Chacon/Navarratte/Boza. Great series of fights. I saw Limon live many times in L.A. and one of them was the Choi fight. I thought Bazooka would win, due to the Navarratte fight against Choi where he just seemed to melt after the ninth round. I wonder if he had been in his country fighting Navarratte and Limon, if it would have embolstered him to tough it out more. Probably not. Navarratte had still to this day one of the best right hook-left cross power combo I have seen. Ganigan was great with it, but the left really was his meat and potatoes, but Rolando hit w/ remarkable affect. Of the fighters I went to see live in the 70s and 80s, Limon, along with Cuevas and Little Red Lopez were my favorite of them all. My favorite fight of Limon's though was his complete demolition and career ending vic over the built up Frankie Baltazar. A total victory of substance over flash. And also one the fights I wish to find, but noone has. (The others being Ted Sanders-Alex Ramos/ Bernardo Mercado-Tex Cobb/ All of Duran-Heier (a fight Howard Cosell called the worst beating he ever saw) ) A little off base, but I can't hear Navarratte and Choi w/out thinking of the others in their pugilistic orgy.

 

Limon was hit clean by big hitter's right hands more than any other fighter I ever saw. 2nd place isn't close. With that wide open style and he'd get beat to the punch by Arguello's right hand and take it. How? Or Chacon. Choi. Everyone hit him with their Sunday best. And he would not change and continue to slug.

Rolando has the best punch rarely seen--devastating right hook from a southpaw. What a rare punch and how can an opponent prepare for that?

What a tough time to have fought in that division and it was Alexis Arguello that fought them all and at the top, before moving up in weight.

Camacho came along a little later and took Limon's title and there is no way in the world they should have signed a contract for that guy. I thought Camacho was really something back then at that weight, and who knows--he may have bested Alexis and all those other tough hombres.

 

Yeah, he was like marble to hit and his body punches crushed many a fighter. These guys were great to watch and spend hardearned moneyon to see live. I love the flawed exciting guys best. I have little opinion of all this p4p bull****. Who cares! It is the exciting fighters people like I want to hear about. Whether it be a thrill a minute guy like Limon or a guy like Galindez, who I loved towatch but others may think him dreadfully dull. I like to hear about peoples favs to watch. P4p is imaginary and subjective in every case. Give me the opinions on your individual favs always for their strengths and weaknesses and why you like them.

 

Bump

 

Another bump for visibility.

 

Navarette had a great right hook. He had more power than Limon, but wasn't nearly as durable. I think if Boza wasn't cut badly, he would have beaten Navarette. He seemed ahead until his right eye was cut, then got caught by a huge hook and never fully recovered.

Choi was just not world championship material. He did well to get two shots.

He had a busy style, but wasn't durable enough to sustain it against elite competition.

 

This was actually the first post I was going to respond to when I came back to the forum a few weeks ago, but for some reason I guess I forgot to press "enter." I do not want to re-construct what I had written then but briefly:

Navarette v. Choi was arguably one of the most controversial calls against a Korean fighter I can recall - up there with the decision against Chan-hee Park in his second fight with Oguma in Japan and the stoppage against Soo-hwan Hong in his second fight with Zamora in Seoul. (There was a proper riot, and Hong's brother attacked the referee, and even his mother lay down on the ring and ranted; there was also a crazy back story, too - which I won't get into here for now.) Personally, I remember watching this at my grandfather's in Kyongju and being distraught for days - because I, too, thought the whole affair a travesty, and because Choi was one of my favorite fighters. (No, contrary to Mendoza's accusation, Chang was not my "hero"; as a youth, I preferred big punchers and did not come to appreciate the subtleties of the ring until I trained a bit later in life. Instead, my favorite fighters were big punchers such as Choi, Chong-pal Park, In-chul Baek, and Choong-jae Hwang - none of whom I rate highly objectively.)

Analyzing the controversy itself, the bell obviously rang about 10 seconds before it was supposed to, right after Navarette got up from that 5th or 6th round knockdown. This was almost certainly deliberate to ensure Navarette is not knocked out in front of Marcos; and I've seen this occur quite often in Asia - including in Korea - on behalf of the home fighter. The issue is: Did the early bell change the outcome of the fight? I cannot say for sure. Navarette was very hurt; that was no flash knockdown. But he was not on his last legs either - contrary to the claims of hyper-nationalistic Koreans (among whom I belonged when this actually occurred). So I tend to think Navarette would have survived the 10 seconds or so. Of course, Choi could have done enough damage in those moments to finish the fight the next round.

As for Choi himself: My opinion of him changed a lot over the years, as is the case with my opinion of that fight. Being older and leaving the South Korean nationalist furnace tend to bring a better perspective. My mature view of Choi is that he was too one-dimensional to be a championship fighter at the weight he fought. He essentially had nothing but a good jab and that big right that locally won him the nickname the "autocannon." (I recall some Western posters call him the "Korean Hearns," but, unlike Hearns, Choi had no other tool than that one-two.) On the negative, he had a questionable chin (or questionable punch resistance to the body) and severe stamina issues. The locals have compared Choi to Chan-hee Park in these two respects, and that's a fair comparison. But Chan-hee fought at a weight where there weren't too many sluggers, so weak chin and poor stamina did not hurt him as much. Choi, on the other hand, fought, well, Navarette and Limon. That is the difference.

But chin and stamina were not Choi's only issues. His offense was also severely lacking, in spite of his knockout percentage and his ability to tag world class fighters at will with that jab and that "autocannon." He rarely went to the body, and he had no hook or uppercut. It was just one-two, one-two, one-two, ad infinitum. I've heard many local experts say that this one-dimensional arsenal is due to the fact that Choi stayed in the amateur too long, and this could have contributed to the problem. But, additionally, my pet theory has always been that Choi's early TKD training hindered his ability to develop hooks or uppercuts, as we tend to throw only straight punches. When I trained briefly in a boxing gym as an older guy, my trainer was shocked that I have never boxed before; he apparently had never seen a total novice throw the jab and the right cross with such speed and power, and he insisted I was lying. But then he had me throw hooks and uppercuts, and he thought my effort was comical and realized that I really did not have any boxing training. I then explained that I've had decades of training in TKD, and that we never threw anything but straight punches. I think a similar dynamic is at work with many Korean and Japanese fighters with a deep TKD/karate background. For instance, Watanabe's best punch sequence was also that one-two, and his hooks seem a bit off kilter to me - albeit Watanabe's arsenal was far more variegated than Choi's. You won't see this issue with Thai fighters, in contrast, as hooks (and elbows, which rely on a similar motion) are integral to Muay Thai.

Overall, Choi was always a dangerous fighter because he had power, and his trademark right was difficult to avoid due to its speed and the fact that it was always disguised by an educated jab. Like Hearns, he probably could have out-boxed most guys without power; he was tall, fast, and through those long, straight punches. But if you had a chin to weather that early assault and brought some power of your own, then Choi was an easy puzzle to solve. As a result, his ceiling would be a top or even a top 5 guy at a given epoch, but rarely a champion or a top 3 guy.

 

Wasn't LA a virtual "home" fight for Choi, given how many Koreans live there - and how many they turned up for the Limon fight? I recall there being an army of Koreans in the crowds. As for your hypothetical, change of venue may sometimes change fights that end in a decision, but rarely fights where a guy gets knocked out - unless foul play is involved.

My sentiments exactly.