Roles reversed, Muhammad Ali (Lyle fight) vs Prime Sonny Liston

I kinda still think that Ali would stop him.

 

He can't keep Sonny off of him at that point. Bad night for Ali.

 

I think the “ official “ age of Liston was listed at 32. But most speculate he was older. So if 32 is the age we’re going with then that’s when Muhammad Ali beat George Foreman. As for Sonny’s prime I’m think we’re looking at 1959-1962 or somewhere therein. I’m leaning towards Liston under these circumstances but won’t count out the man who upset a seemingly invincible Foreman either

 

I just think it's a testament to Ali's greatness that he can still be counted in against prime ATGs when he himself isn't at his fullest.

 

The man probably has the strongest argument for being the best heavyweight. Joe Louis is up there too but I can’t see anyone else being in that discussion

 

If this were pre-Manila Ali it beckons an intriguing match, but this is the one who struggled with Lyle & Shavers. It’s hard to imagine Ali ever getting counted out, even this Ali, but the best, hungriest Liston I am pretty confident really, really hurts this Ali.

Ali from Zaire might beat peak Liston. This one will have to be rescued by Dundee jumping into the ring.

 

In my opinion the Ali who beat Foreman would still have beaten a prime Liston. Too fast for Sonny and equally as tough but would probably have gone the distance.

 

Fair

 

Interesting wrinkle though - if this is truly a role reversal, can we take it Ali is a big favourite & drastically under-estimating the very young, hungry Liston, eager to prove himself? Around the same time, Ali under-estimated & lost to Norton.

 

I don’t think Liston was ever “very young” including the day he was born.

 

You know what I mean, damn it LOL. Making Ali a 7-1 favourite would certainly help Liston & that is help Ali got in 1964, so I think it’s a fair consideration.

 

Ali beats him like a drum again, the same way and knocking him out in later round.

Only version that Liston would maybe beat is the CTE Ali, but Ali is all wrong for him and would beat him 100/100 times.

 

A couple of things - Ali is taller and faster than Liston, takes a better punch and has quicker head movement.

In the first fight, Liston actually doesn't do a bad job of landing to Ali's body - he just cannot time the head. Ali started the fight with lots of nervous energy, exaggerated head movement, lots of footwork to take him out of position, but when he comes off his toes and is boxing Liston, off the jab and pivot, controlling ring centre - wow! That version of Ali, in terms of the ring generalship and tactics, never gets beat by any version of Liston IMO.

Owing to this and his still quick hand speed for the Foreman fight, I just don't like this fight for Liston. Sonny didn't have George's foot speed and ring cutting ability, neither did he really push his man back and frame like Foreman did. Whilst he did frame off his jab at times, he wasn't bigger than Ali and without being able to physically bully him and outspeed him in the battle of jabs (Ali slipped Liston's jab both inside and outside the jab), I am not sure that an Ali as seasoned as that of the Lyle fight, who still has the footwork to pivot and catch his man with a sneaky hook or a right hand equaliser, is going to not be able to deal with a faster but still solvable puzzle in what Sonny brings to the table.