Ron Borges' top 10 Mexican fighters of all time

Addie, brilliant reply :good as I said before, I don't necessarily disagree :good

teeto also :good

as I say I think it's down to opinion. I also think Morales DID take a more measured approach in certain fights. I just feel if you picked a selection of real good fighters at whatever weight you feel either fighter is at their best at, Marquez would fare better than Morales. So yeah, it's mainly a h2h thing.

But as I always do when faced with a really good reply, I'll eat humble pie.

Morales>Marquez :good

still think Marquez would beat him though.

 

You're a legend.

 

FLEAMAN; I have a question why would you put Azteca over Arizmendi when you admitted that you dont know much about Arizmendi? Or put Azteca above Morales and Barrera 2 guys that will be 1st ballot HOF. Azteca was a great pioneer along with Arizmendiand Battling Shaw who were the first world champions(shaw,Arizmendi) from Mexico,but Azteca has been retired for over 40 years and is still not in the IBHOF(hes in the WBHOF)

Arizmendi is my #9 guy he wasnt that big of a puncher but he had an all out attack and a great chin. He started out at fly and fought at welter towards the end and he went 2-3 with Armstrong:shock: beat guys like Labarba,Chalky wright,Dado,Angott,drew with Lou ambers and in one of those wins over Hank he was reported to have dominated him.


Azteca fought as long as ATG Moore and Duran he was also a good puncher and went 2-2 vs Ceferino Garcia and 1-1 with Fritzie Zivic knocking him out in a win. Also beat Young Peter Jackson and Izzy Janazzo so he is right outside my top 10.

 

Exactly. I know little about Arizmendi. There you are, I'll put him in the top ten, with my knowledge of him he MUST be good enough to be there.

See what I mean.

Azteca had outstanding longevity, and his win-lose ratio is not as bad as it seems when you go into it.

Cocoa Kid and Ceferino Garcia are good wins, as is Zivic.

Again, it's his longevity and the fact he fought at what I describe as 'the peak of boxing', the 40's/50's. I feel boxing was at it's most consistent across the board around that time and Azteca was obviously damn,damn good himself for having success there even if his notable wins lack the instant 'wow' factor.

Again, Baby Arizmendi is someone I need to know about, all I've seen is his fight with Armstrong, I have no knowledge of his career and I don't really like trawling through Boxrec, prefer to hear from others or read stuff.

I will delve deeper:good

Obviously I've seen no footage of Azteca, but neither have I of Harry Greb yet I rate him. Azteca is someone I know little of the 'details' about (apart from a classic Mexican left body shot) but it's hard not to be impressed by his career.

To be fair, up to 6, I'm bang on about. The last four are the people I feel should make up the top ten, but as I have already shown, I'm open to interpretation, argument and other posters input.

By the way, it's not that Young Peter jackson (the one that beat Langford) I believe :goodI also don't base my rankings IN ANY WAY on who or who may not be inducted into the Hall of Fame. Jeez.

 

Not at all, mate :good

Of course we both know I WILL be commenting on the top highlighted part ......

1. Morales had a good defence when he had his `boxing` head on, he just loved a brawl because he knew he could rely on his legendary chin.

2. Technically, I thought Morales threw EVERY punch in the book extremely well, borderline perfect... EVEN when slugging it out, thats thoroughbred technique IMO.

3. You might have a point about Morales not COMING INTO the fight with a plan B - he was single minded, stubborn & confident he would win doing his thing, its what made him great IMO - ....... BUT.... when he was taking more than he was giving due to his plan not working too well, he adapted mid fight & kicked it up a few gears like few elites could, this tells me the man was a born fighter & very adaptable when needed, albeit a little too emotional at times.


Botswana :good

 

Again, fair points.

I don't want anyone to think I'm a Morales hater. I f'n love the guy! How could you not?!?!?!?

Was worth a bit of discussion though and I think they're interchangable still, as is Ricardo Lopez and Kid azteca with them, Azteca is someone I'd really like to know more in-depth about, he's instantly intriguing.

 

Just realised I didn't have Lopez in my top ten :huh

Marquez>>>>>>Lopez:think

Now, it's fairly easy to make a case for that as Marquez has the better opposition, but do you take Lopez's consistency in carrying an undefeated record and (the majority of the time) looking absolutely sensational, and remaining so through two (very close) weights? Or Marquez occasionally slipping up, getting far more battered throughout his career but beating much better opposition and by carrying his power 9lbs and by pushing a potential top 30 ATG to the limit (twice, and I scored the 2nd fight 115-112 JJM)? And often without superior physical advantages (Lopez was a tall strawweight)

It's something I've never contemplated before. I'm pretty certain Baby Arizmendi is going to really impress me once I can be bothered to read up on him, judging by how others hold him in such high esteem, so it may be that either Marquez, Morales or Lopez does not make the top ten:nut

 

Cheers, Addie.....

thats an excellent highlight video, just shows how good a 26 year old Morales was, brilliant fighter, Im gonna save this vid to my favourites :thumbsup

 

I'd say Lopez is too high and Saldivar much too low, and as has been said, Arizmendi should be squeezed in their somewhere.

 

That was a good comeback for the post who said Morales had no defense:good Morales only got hit when he chose to slug it out,but that is also what made him an all around fighter. If he wanted to he could have outslugged him or out boxed Paulie. I thought he boxed good against Barrera the 2nd time and I thought he should have won that one. Although I thought barrera got the first one when Morales slugged it out. Who could forget the 1stManny fight where Erik out boxed the Manny.

 

Sanchez, Olivares, Saldivar and Chavez make up the top four in whatever order with Canto and Zarate duking it out for the fifth spot. It gets harder after that.

And Borges is a klondike.

 

Thats why I love Morales, he wouldnt be my favourite fighter if he wasnt of a high technical level, 2 of my favourite things in boxing are great fights & excellent technique, thats Erik Morales in one.

 

Salvador Sanchez
Julio Cesar Chavez
Ruben Olivares
Miguel Canto
Vicente Saldivar
Marco Antonio Barrera
Erik Morales
Carlos Zarate
Manuel Ortiz
Baby Arizmendi

Lopez and Marquez just miss the cut.

 

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This man was a thoroughbred.... legend !

All you ****ers are gonna miss him in due time, believe me.