Ron Lipton does a deep dive on Rocky Marciano Vs Jack Dempsey

it’s rude to joke about ESB Marciano. The poor thing.

 

I realize it was made up, but based on true events. Dempsey DID use Big Bill Tate and the Jamaica Kid routinely as sparring partners. He also had a famous sparring session with Harry Greb.

 

I find it very hard to believe that a guy who gets caught and dropped by the glacially slow Firpo in the first is going to run wild and stop Marciano early. Maybe the one who demolished Willard might be able to have that type of early success, but not the one whose intensity was starting to wane by the time of this hypothetical match-up. At least, not without getting clipped by a guy wasn't just an attrition puncher and who carried impressive early power. I've got Marciano winning this more often than note due to superior durability, better engine, a more consistent attack and better defensive awareness.

Also, any hypothetical match-up btx these two that features Marciano using entrance music and isn't being called by Don Dunphy is automatically invalid.

 

I think that Gibbons is a bit underrated in comparison to Walcott and past prime Charles. Not saying he was necessarily better, but he was really good.

 

This is among my line of thinking. The huge gap in speed in particular is decisive. I also think Dempsey would've been not only the fastest but most powerful fighter Marciano ever fought. I don't think the same is necessarily true vice versa.

However, Dempsey **** on his legacy by avoiding his no.1 contender and not defending his title for 3 years. Marciano, fought and defeated anyone with a pulse (even if he struggled more than he should at times) to defend his title. I will always rank Marciano significantly higher than Dempsey in an ATG list.

 

These are great fighters. The difficulty is trying to imagine either one of them losing that badly on their very best night. Personally I find in these situations it is as likely to get a kind of cancelling out situation, where two guys try too hard and smother the other. But only as likely, and not more so.

I have no quibble with the result since anything could happen and you can’t rule anything out. Reading Pollacks excellent book on Dempsey the research showed Jack won an awful lot of competitive fights against very active live opponents. Many good fights. So Jack would have developed a greater experience at a younger age.

Dempsey would have the seasoning and athletic edge. By comparison Marciano was more manufactured. So I can respect that side of things.

At his pinnacle Dempsey probably was the more special fighter.

 

Did you just ... pick against Marciano?

Is everything all right Chok?

 

Like this, was on the fence, but this post has me leaning towards the Rock. keep well.

 

Meh I disagree Marciano's durability is superior, or his defense. Excellent post though.

 

I would guess I've read more on Dempsey in these parts than anyone but Pollack or the political exile McVey. Books, bios, newspaper articles... been reading them for 3 decades. Maybe it doesn't give me objectivity but it gives me a basis for argumentation. Ignorance doesn't provide objectivity either.

It makes absolute sense. Results are all we have That is my point. Beyond that, we get into the fanboy idiocy which is endemic to the Cult of Dempsey (and lesser so to the Cult of Marciano). Glowacki was shot to pieces, just as Willard was basically a retired fighter and current active performer. We use this thing called context when balancing the scale on the results.

Fine. It's not a blow-out either way (despite what Lipton thinks).

By beating better fighters than Dempsey beat, I know the bar that Marciano can clear. But I can only imagine Dempsey clearing that bar. Do I think Dempsey had more upside than he showed in his career? Absolutely. But it was not proven in the ring.

Heavyweight Walcott is leagues better than Heavyweight Gibbons. That is beyond debate.

 

Yes - Dempsey deadliest at start, Marciano slow starter.

 

Is Rocky that slow of a starter?

He won 48% of his fights in the first 3 rounds.

Maybe the fact that he was effective in the mid and late rounds gives the wrong impression?