Ron Lyle vs Cleveland Williams

They both were actually. Two guys comparable in size and both very muscular

 

Spot on. That’s why pointing to wherever a fighter was rated as and when (and by which organisation) to support an argument for eligibility or against it, doesn’t always hold water.

 

The time in discussion is miles prior to any Golden Boy takeover. Also people like "myself" did not cry over the conflict of interest because i myself have never commented on it in my entire life. You've only fantasized that i did in order to make yourself feel better about the flimsy case you are trying to shove forward. Making up stories is more than a little weird. A writer like yourself really should stick to the facts and be used to sticking to them. Hopefully you are a whole lot tighter in your books.

The Ring ratings were excellent during my whole time of following them whilst the WBC ratings were suss at times and the WBA often deplorable. Ring shat all over them on the whole.

As for the last paragraph (you did a post with a second paragraph, serious and genuine kudos on that upgrade) well i haven't even commented on who would win or who was ranked (i actually pointed out an error or two to Swag last year) and the last few times it's come up i believe I've picked Lyle.

 

Actually, Cleve looks that bit bigger and broader than Ronnie (see below).

Tbh, I put this pic up for Special K - it shows off Cleve’s pecs - the ones that K so often talks about.

Unfortunately, it doesn’t accomodate the thweaty veneer that K also waxes lyrical about.

Apologies for that. I’m sure there must be some out there for him to ogle.

https://www.gettyimages.com.au/deta...u-check-out-now-dr-isamu-news-photo/838106668

 

Agreed, JT.

Have the Ring magazine rankings always been completely infallible throughout their entire history? No.

Have they been typically more reflective of where boxers deserve to be ranked than any of the alphabet governing bodies? Hell, yes.

Is, therefore, citing Ring magazine rankings the most fair and reliable means of establishing what ranked contenders a fighter beat? Yup, sure is.

 

Spot on Greg, spot on. Better than i worded it

 

This was indeed a mystery. After his creditable losing effort against Jerry Quarry Middleton was ranked 8th by the WBA. During the ensuing six months of inactivity he dropped out of the Ring ratings but somehow floated up to #4 according to the WBA. Confusing, and probably something to do with the attempt which was underway to match him with George Foreman and market it as a final eliminator for a shot at Frazier's title. Which just goes to show how erratic the WBA ratings could occasionally be.

 

Little wonder most go with the ring ratings!!!!

 

Which is why I said “people LIKE you”. You know, people who think the Ring ratings were somehow better than official sanctioning bodies which actually how the power to dictate title shots etc. When the Ring ratings were routinely “bought” .

I mean frankly if you want to nitpick Ring ratings, the month Ellis was rated by the WBA and WBC when he fought Lyle the Ring had Middleton, who you seem to have a problem ranking, despite the fact that he had won just one of his previous six fights. The winning effort coming over unranked OHalloran.

In fact, if you look at a comparison of the WBA ratings for that month vs the Ring you can see they are virtually identical barring positions 8, 9, and 10.

But lets be honest here, this isnt really about who had better ratings. Its about Williams adherents trying to nitpick the fact that Lyle beat better fighters and more fighters who rated. Period. But as Ive said before: When the only three opponents you managed to beat who were rated Alex Miteff, Billy Daniels, and Billy Daniels, dont keep coming on here and talking about the guys legendary attributes and bonafides against better fighters. It makes you look ill- informed.

 

That's not the way you meant it, not one little bit. It's there for all to see. Fair go mate. It's not rocket science and it's not something you can worm out of. Just admit you made a false claim....it's no biggie to me and i'm not about to rub it in.

Nevermind that for the entirety of its run under Fleischer and Loubet it was subsidized by promoters and managers, despite the uproar that we saw when Golden Boy purchased it and people like yourself, not knowing its history, cried that a promoter owning the magazine would cause a conflict of interest. Lol. As if Tex Rickard himself didnt fund the opening of the magazine, provide its offices, and write its first ratings…. spoiler alert: HE DID.

I think you have me mixed up with Swag yet again. I am not Swagdelfadeel let it be said. Check the username. I have made no comment whatsoever about Middleton or his ranking. As a matrer of fact i have said SFA in this thread prior to us chatting. You seem somewhat confused about who is saying and supporting what. I'm not going to stand for false accusations. Have a better look at what you are commenting on and who is doing what please. I've had almost zero input prior to you quoting me.

I am obviously talking about the WBA (and WBC) on the whole.

Would you like me to nitpick the WBA ranking across the years? You are welcome to defend each criticism and prove why the WBA ratings were better. The defense of such guys as Obelmejias, Pablo Baez and Deuk Koo Kim would be required reading.We could start with Kim among myriads of others.

I haven't been doing this, not remotely. You keep bracketing me with others and incorrectly at that. I commented on the merits of the rating organizations, and correctly so.

 

IMHO Cleveland Williams is no Earnie Shavers and Ron Lyle is no Sonny Liston.
Cleveland Williams wins by knockout.

 

I've been overly harsh on Lyle the past couple months so I'll say this. Despite being unrated by the Ring at this point, Middleton had come within a quarter of a point of beating Quarry, so Lyle's 3 round KO over him was truly impressive, and imo his best win.

No wonder Kompton likes the WBA ratings. Him and erratic go hand in hand.

We've already established, Middleton and Ellis were not ranked by the time they met Lyle. I believe Bugner was (which imo was undeserving. He'd just come out of retirement, and had knocked out an unranked Dunn to get his rating) Was Shavers? I believe he fell out of the top ten, after his loss to Stallings though he may have just crawled his way back.

 

Battle of the boxing bodybuilders

 

That's the first and last time you'll ever find an error of mine to point out.

 

Hi Gregg.
Very thoughtful of you, I would expect nothing less, thanks, in the event his response to me was borderline polite, I have seen him dish out a lot worse, it wasn't so much the rankings and where they were sourced, more to do with his tone and manners, but I realise that he is him , and I am me, so no more need be said, stay safe buddy, chat soon.