Ron Lyle vs. Harold Johnson

Lyle wins this, no doubt about it in my mind. I know Harold beat some good heavyweights in his day, but none of them were anything like big bad Ron Lyle. Harold`s defence may have been excellent but it would be of no use against Lyle who would have simply hit him on his arms, elbows and anywhere else he could land until he smashed him to the canvas. If Lyle comes out smoking which I reckon he would do, Harold would be lucky to make it to the 3rd round.... a big hard-hitting 6`3 220 pound Lyle is a bridge too far for Harold and his 5`8 185 pound frame.

 

Harold was a better skilled fighter...Lyle would be a tough foe but Lyle was strong but not such a killer puncher and Johnson was skilled...Johnson was better than Peralta who drew with Lyle

 

I have to disagree with you here Bummy. In my opinion Lyle was a killer puncher with either hand and he could and would hurt anyone he hit, and I just don`t see Harold surviving too long if Lyle blitzes him from the start. Harold didn`t have a great chin which is why his defence was so good, he knew his whiskers were a liability and so he became the great defensive technician he ended up being. I agree with you that he was miles ahead of Lyle in terms of overall boxing ability and skill, but the size and power difference here is just too much for Harold to overcome.

As for Peralta I am aware that he lasted to the final bell against Lyle, but that doesn`t mean that just because he pulled it off that I think Johnson would as well. The reason for that is because while Peralta was similar to Johnson in that he was also a very well schooled good defensive fighter, he had two big advantages over Harold that would see him have more success in lasting the distance against bonafide heavyweights.

One was that Gregorio was very light on his feet and could move around the ring and out of harms way much quicker than the slow footed Johnson, and two was that Peralta had a iron jaw even against heavyweights whereas Johnson`s own chin could be dented by lightheavys. Gregorio`s style allowed him to survive against Lyle and Foreman the first time, but the more stationary Johnson would have been knocked out by either Lyle or George and I`d bet the house on it.

 

You may have point but I have seen Lyle live and although he had that Jail Gym body, I think he had power but was overated as a puncher and had trouble stopping some ordinary guys but you make a very good point about Johnson's whiskers and defensive style....

 

Johnson definitely has the skills and speed to make Lyle look like slow motion, almost amateurish.I like a prime Johnson at 10rds. Of course Lyle could turn it all around with one shot. Still, I like Johnson.

 

Hard to make a pick here, but i don't think Lyle was THAT dangerous as a puncher. Harold shouldn't trade with Lyle, but has a good shot at winning a decision.

 

Johnson by dec over a Lyle whose power is slightly overated [look up who he kod].][and more importantly ,who he didnt].

 

I`m surprised Lyle`s power is considered overrated.... I mean this is the same Ron Lyle who hurt the iron chinned Oscar Bonavena more than once in their tussle, and was bouncing Foreman off the canvas like a yo-yo for a spell before punching himself out and getting stopped. The man could hit like a mule`s kick and to say otherwise is foolish, and frankly how is his power overrated to begin with?

I rarely if ever see Lyle`s name mentioned when talking about the heaviest hitters in his division, and I don`t think I said anything about him that wasn`t accurate or exaggerated either. And lets not forget that Lyle was a boxer first and foremost... he didn`t go out firing on all cylinders and fight the way I said he would in this matchup against everyone.

He could be outboxed and outsmarted but this was done to him by fellow heavyweights.. never by a lightheavyweight. Johnson was a great lightheavyweight, and he could and probably would outbox Lyle if the latter tried to box with him as he was that good.

However if Lyle comes out looking to bomb him out of there and is swinging for the fences from the start, I`m sorry but I don`t see Harold surviving such an onslaught for too long no matter how good he is.

His chin wasn`t that sturdy and with a banger like Lyle hitting him on his arms and elbows looking to break through that defence instead of around it he won`t hold up for long. If Lyle comes out looking for the early KO he wins, but if he tries to box with Harold I agree with the consensus that he probably would lose a decision.

 

I wasnt attacking your posts,I think you are a great poster.Johnson was stopped 3 times in 87 fights twice by decent bangers ,Walcott and Moore ,and once when he was old ,by Herschel Jacobs,Lyle was a good puncher but failed to stop several heavies that were not over durable,eg Ellis,who in turn dropped Bonavena ,some thing Llyle failed to do. Lyle's rep as a puncher is based largely on his "up an down 2 with big George ,apart from the several times kod Shavers ,which top heavies did he send down for the count?Another Mac Foster methinks.Johnson had the ring smarts ,and the durability to gain a dec imo.

 

I did not think you or any other poster was attacking me mcvey, far from it actually. I was just suprised to see so many think Lyle was overrated as a puncher because I couldn`t disagree more. The few times he came in looking to really end matters quickly he looked impressive and showed he could really hit wih the best of em`.

Having two of the more durable heavys of his era in Bonavena and Foreman hurt on multiple occasions proves to me at least that the man could punch when he set his mind to really blasting his man out of there and looking to knock out his opponent.

But see he rarely ever fought that way because as I already mentioned in my previous post he was a boxer first and foremost, not a slugger. The outcome of this fight rests entirely on Lyle`s mindset coming in... if he goes in looking to pound Harold into submission I reckon he gets it done before gassing out after 4-5 rounds.

As for Ellis dropping Oscar where Lyle failed to do so, that had more to due with the straighter, more compact punches of Ellis catching Bonavena on the way in, not due to him having more power than Lyle who he lost to btw. Either way, I`ve said everything I had to say about this matchup and who would win and why so I am bowing out of it for good... good debate and points made by all however.

 

I would make Johnson a pretty heavy favorite. He was undefeated against plus 200 lb heavies and beat men as big as Lyle--Nino Valdes, Billy Gilliam, and Sid Peaks--and in the case of Valdes a man who was arguably as good or even better than Lyle.

Johnson's whiskers--He probably had a stronger jaw than Lyle. Johnson was in against a lot of punchers. He was stopped only four times in almost 90 fights, one time by Moore in five fights when the ref stopped the fight with Johnson on his feet, once by Walcott when he hurt his back, once on cuts at 43, and once by Boardwalk Billy Smith. The Smith stoppage, and perhaps the Moore one, are the only ko'd bys that you can really point to. In comparision, he went the distance four times with Moore, twice with Satterfield, once with Charles and Henry and Machen and Valdes, etc. Calling his chin weak is a stretch. I think Satterfield was a more dangerous puncher than Lyle, and certainly much faster.

Lyle was stopped four times in 51 fights.

Lyle could be outboxed and had trouble stopping good boxers. He went the full ten twice with a 38 year old Peralta, once to a draw. He went the distance with a 35 year old Ellis. He went the distance twice and lost badly twice to Jimmy Young. Foreman and Bonavena were there to be hit, and so was Shavers. Johnson was also a hell of a counterpuncher. That Lyle could just throw caution to the wind against him seems unlikely to me.

 

Before I bow out for good, two points I would like to reiterate. One, Johnson himself admitted he didn`t take a punch so well, and two was that while Harold was indeed a fantastic boxer he was a rather stationary one... he wasn`t exactly light on his feet was Harold.

Jimmy Young arguably beat Norton and Ali and in my opinion did defeat both, so there is no shame in those two loses Ron suffered at his hands and I don`t see how they are relevant to begin in this discussion.

Jimmy was a mover/slickster and highly elusive as was Peralta, Harold was not elusive or used his legs much but rather excelled in the defensive aspects of the game such as blocking, parrying and positioning his body and arms to minize the impact of punches... not quite the same thing as Jimmy Young or Gregorio Peralta defensively in that regard.

Harold`s style will make is easier for Lyle to hit him, and if he has his mind set on flattening Johnson I think he can punch right through him and get him out of there quick.

 

Not much more to add here. Lyle wins.

 

Lyle is vastly over-rated here, started late, failed to KO some opponents who were career canvas-dwellers. Bonavena and Perralta were both on their last legs so that's not much of a feather in his proverbial cap. Moore is a far more accomplished puncher than Lyle and that's what it took to take Johnons out. Meanwhile, Johnson is in the same league of boxer/slugger as the Quarry who dispatched Lyle. It certainly could go either way but I would lean quite heavily on Johnson.