Ron Lyle vs ike ibeabuchi

To be fair to Lyle, I’d say both his wins, over Shavers and Bonavena, are on a par with Ibeabuchi’s win over Tua.

The victory over Byrd is somewhat of a standout win; mainly on account of the manner in which it was achieved and that he’d go on to win a world title.

Lyle’s kudos stems much from his defeats against Greats. But he has a reasonable body of work, despite this.

 

Have you actually watched these fights, or did you read about them elsewhere in posts bashing Tua? Maskaev and Izon fought Tua completely differently. How did the Maskaev fight set a blueprint for how the Ibeabuchi fight went?

I asked about Marciano because I was curious how you would apply the term "exposed" to a man who you seem to consider almost invincible in head-to-head match-ups. It's interesting that you believe Marciano was "exposed" against two tiny, ordinary heavyweights but you've picked him to knock out bigger ATG talents like Liston, Frazier, Holmes, Tyson, Bowe, Vitali, Wlad and pre-exile Ali, and to UD Foreman and Holyfield. I guess you just use "expose" a lot more loosely than I do.

 

Beating oscar bonavena, earnie shavers And joe bugner and being very close to stop a 27 years old foreman is clearly a greater merit than only beating chris byrd and winning a polemic decision over tua. End of history

 

I was just interested to see what Chok put forth. Lyle's win column isn't really overwhelming either and he has the losses.

I can see both sides of the coin on this one. Ike largely unproven excepting 2 fights, Lyle a bit of a mixture.

 

No I don't think the referee, or the commentator is always right ,but in this case I do.It isnt so much a case of me being right as of you being wrong.Why would your opinion cry anymore weight than any body else's?

 

Of course I watched the fights. I actually like David Tua he just gets overrated because he's 225 and hits hard.

I've never considered Marciano invincible. I think we have a difference of the term exposed here. I'm using it in the context that these guys went against opponents who implemented certain tactics that proved to be more than effective and could have potentially won them the fight. Weight doesn't have anything to do with it. Marciano was still in the infancy of his career in terms of skills and had a long way to go against Lowry and met a really good counter puncher-boxer type in LaStarza and supposedly there were emotional issues going on with Marciano because of the Vingo fight. But that's another topic.

Do you honestly think that the Marciano of the first Lowry and LaStarza fights was the same fighter from the Charles or Moore fights?

I never picked him to knock out pre-exile Ali in fact I said pre-exile Ali would beat him. I also said that the Foreman fight could go either way. I don't think I ever said he would knock out Vitali either. Not sure what I said exactly about the rest of the fighters but I'm sure you're over exaggerating it. Let's also not forget that these fights are prime for prime match ups not if Marciano had fought all of them back to back. That's kind of how your post is coming off and I think that's what you want so as to somehow discredit my position maybe. Back to back is completely different and I don't think anyone would beat the same guys back to back that they might if prime for prime.

 

So then you're admitting that it's at least possible that the referee and commentator were wrong here.

I've never said my opinion matters more. I've just made my posts and you were the one who decided to respond to them.

 

Anyone can be wrong,but from the film of the fight I believe that in this case they were correct .I responded to your saying Ike got a gift stoppage over Byrd because I disagree with it, who said it is immaterial to me.

 

You said he wasn't fighting back which is why it was a good stoppage. I disagreed and said he was protecting himself which is why it was a bad stoppage. Byrd was clearly slipping most all of Ike's punches that the ref saw and decided to stop the fight. Do you disagree? Was Byrd not slipping those punches?

 

It was a good question (got me thinking) and Lyle's ledger is a mixed bag, indeed.

I am one of those, who thinks Ibeabuchi's career would have been quite fascinating and successful in being so, had it not been cut short. Especially, given the timeframe in which he was rising.

But, Lyle was the kind of boxer puncher with a dig and a tenacity of his own, which I feel might have been enough to thwart Ike's momentum. No guarantees of course - but I'd consider a small wager on Lyle.

 

Nice one. Ike is an open book so some will use that one way, and others the opposite way. It's hard to be sure of either way. He looked fantastic against Byrd and Tua but is that enough to go the whole hog? It's fascinating and hugely annoying (trying to figure him) both at once.

 

See below:

source: https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/rocky-marciano-vs-the-future-champions.581790/

 

That was a year ago. My opinions have changed dude lol

 

Oh dear.

 

He has better names than ike and he had losses because he started his career much later than ike too. What losses had lyle when he still was not a total shot? He lost to Quarry when he(lyle) was still green and did not have the chance to fight a rematch,ali ,young and foreman? All them were great fighters at the time that lyle fought them. Ike did not fight anybody