Roy Jones and Mike Tyson, where should we really place them?

I tend to agree that these gentlemen were two of the most exciting fighters ever but what mountains did they climb? Please watch this video:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0EFwMkodA0[/ame]


In my book, legends of excitement but I don't know if they have true legendary legacies.

(I was a HUGE Roy and Tyson homer)

 

Don't go getting defensive now, please.

 

Roy's best legacy win: James Toney, really can you put anyone else on a list as a legendary legacy win when Hopkins was only 4 years removed from prison? I really can't justify anyone other than Toney.

Tyson's best legacy win? Razor???? I have a hard time looking at the guys Tyson beat and say "yep that was a huge win for Tyson". I mean he was expected to win every single fight. (please don't try to explain to me "that was because he was so good" well, of course, but also because his competition wasn't up to standard.)

Who was Roy's Pacquiao as an opponent, and who was Tyson's Floyd? Follow me? I don't feel that either guy had that mountain of an opponent to defeat, and both lost to guys who are considered as "less great" than they are.

This is why I ask this question. In my opinion, you may disagree, neither guy has an "Ali type win" like Frazier did, neither guy has a "George Foreman/Frazier/Liston" type win like Ali did, etc etc.

I just don't see it and that was a hard thing to admit a while back as a former Tyson/Roy homer.

 

I'm asking even the fellow Tyson and Roy homers to please use critical thinking with this topic.

 

I've never bashed Roy Jones, I merely have stated that Bernard Hopkins has more huge legacy wins than Roy. I said that Hopkins was tested more often, especially in his second run here, and he won more of his tests than Roy did.

As far as the "could have been the greatest", well I doubt that because the available talent for Roy to test himself on wouldn't stack up with the real true proven legends like Ali or Ray Robinson. I mean who from Roy's time period could you compare him beating with Ali beating a Frazier, or a Foreman?

Who could Roy have fought coming into the fight as a real underdog?

Also, he had major flaws in his technical approach to boxing which people pointed out for years, but wasn't exposed until his athleticism left.

I do agree that he was one of the most if not the most phenomenal fighters to ever grace a boxing ring from an athletic standpoint though.

 

See, like I said, Roy Jones Jr and Mike Tyson were far and away my favorite athletes in the world, but I have to be honest here. I can't take a critical look at another fighter's career (example: Floyd or Manny) if I can't take a critical look at 2 of my most favorite fighter's of all time's careers.

 

Roy Jones Jr is still fighting, if you really feel that way about the classics thread, why don't you take issue with the Joe Calzaghe threads? hmmm

Anyways, other than James Toney who are you gonna list on Roy Jones's wins as a HUUUUUUUUUGE win for Roy?! Or how about a win where he was the underdog like Ali was against Liston or Foreman?

I just don't see it.

 

Well I guess in my opinion sometimes a fighter looks "more dangerous" because of their style than another fighter. Roy certainly looked more dangerous but was he more effective and more proven against true recognized top tier talent?

That's my point.

Curtis Stevens looked more dangerous than Jesse Brinkley for one example, and what happened there? Just an almost pointless example but I think "looking dangerous" is what you are describing to me because Roy looked freakin dangerous, and yes he did test himself against James Toney and I hardly doubt that anyone would deny that Roy Jones Jr certainly looked possibly like the better fighter in his prime. One may even argue he was more explosive.

From a career and legacy standpoint though, other than James Toney, name one Roy Jones opponent you can really go tell your friends, family, and other boxing fans that "wow I still can't believe Roy won that fight".

See every once in a while you hear those in the "know" call a fight a "legacy fight". I don't believe personally that Tyson won 1 true legacy fight, and the possible legacy fight for Tyson was shaping up to be him and Evander before Tyson went to prison, but Buster Douglass and a **** charge prevented that from happening.

For Roy Jones, clearly the James Toney fight was his "legacy fight", and he won, he passed the test, so certainly that can't be ignored.

For instance Pacquiao and Floyd have each other as a potential "legacy fight" and I say potential because I have my doubts that the fight ever happens.

About 2-5 times in a career a "legacy fight" should happen one way or the other. Unfortunately for Tyson his "legacy fight" happens to be a loss because he lost to a huge major underdog. The Buster Douglas fight wasn't a legacy fight heading into the fight, but when you lose a fight where you are that much of a favorite, and you look that dominant coming into it, it's a huuuuuuuuge stain on your legacy, especially in your prime like Tyson was.

Some careers only have 1 legacy fight, which has a lot to do with politics and selective fighting.