Roy Jones in his prime is the greatest ever

This. He started fighting BETTER guys near the end, when he was past it (Tarver, Green, Johnson, Lebedev, Hopkins, Calzaghe etc) He should have been fighting that caliber back when he was fighting scrubs like Hall, Kelley, that cop, Telesco, etc.

 

he NEVER fought the best of his era. he ducked way too many rivals:deal

 

This is one of the most common misconceptions.

Newsflash!

He did fight guys the calibre of those you've listed. It's absolutely crazy to just single out the bums he fought. Every fighter that's ever fought fights bums. Pick me any fighter in the history of the sport, and I'll look up the bums he fought. It's part of boxing. Anybody can rip anyone's record apart.

Roy's win over Frazier is remembered more than his win over Reggie Johnson. Your post is completely ridiculous! You're implying that all he ever fought were scrubs as you say. Nonsense!

He fought everyone who was relevant in his prime, apart from DM.

He easily beat Castro when he was 22/23 years old.

He beat Hopkins when he was 24, with an injured right hand. Coach Merk wanted to pull him out, and Roy refused.

He beat the best man at 168 in James Toney.

He beat Malinga who caused Benn loads of trouble.

He crushed Tate in under 5 mins, who was a good fighter.

He beat Merqui Sosa in a few rounds, who was a very tough and respected fighter at the time.

He knocked out Griffin in 2 mins of the rematch, Griffin was a good fighter.

He beat Virgil Hill in just 4 rounds.

He beat Del Vall who was a decent fighter.

He beat a very good fighter in Reggie Johnson, who'd beaten Collins, by a landslide. Reggie couldn't do a thing with him.

During this period, Joe Calzaghe wanted nothing to do with Roy. He was happy at home at 168, and would only consider fighting Roy, if he got paid the crown jewels. But nobody was going to pay him the crown jewels, because outside of Europe in the late 90's/early 2000's, he was relatively unknown.

HBO offered DM $5m to go to the U.S. At first he agreed, then he backed out. Then he agreed for a second time, only to pull out a second time. He was happy defending his belt in Germany for good money, like Joe was doing in the U.K.

I've no problem with that, but Roy gets abused for ducking them both. Nobody in 2001-2002 could have expected Roy to fight in Germany. Some of Ottke's opponents were getting raped by the judges.

Next up was Harding, who was very awkward, who'd beaten Tarver.

He then fought Woods and Gonzalez, who fair enough weren't great, but they were good enough to be World Champions. Woods went on to have three very close fights with Glen Johnson. Gonzalez went on to beat DM who was coming to the end of his career. Nobody could say Woods and Gonzalez were complete bums. Roy toyed with both of them.

Then he fought Ruiz, who again wasn't great, but it was a big risk for Roy to take. He outweighed Roy naturally by 4 stones, and 2 and a half on the night of the fight. Yes he wasn't an ATG, but Ruiz wasn't a bum.

You fail to mention any of these fighters and just pick out Kelly, Hall and Frazier etc. Why?

By the way, HBO pushed him to fight David Telesco. It's a fight they wanted to see.

The majority of the fighters I've just listed are as good/ were as good as Glen Johnson, Danny Green and Denis Lebedev.

Yes there's other fighters that Roy could have fought, but the list above is still very impressive.

Regards, Loudon.

 

Who did he blatently duck?

I'll give you Nunn and Collins, and that's about it.

Nunn was way past his best in 98/99 and wasn't relevant.

He ducked Steve Collins who in 99 brought nothing to the table. Roy swerved him to fight Reggie Johnson in a unification fight.

I'll give you those two, but he didn't duck Benn, Eubank, Calzaghe, DM etc.

Hopkins and Toney were the best two fighters of Roy's era!

Regards, Loudon.

 

Hi Loudon

Good post mate, Though you did mention some good wins such as R.Johnson, Tate and Malinga. Hill was somewhat past it, I don't give too much credit for that win as he was also coming off a loss, and clearly wasn't the same fighter he once was.

As for Joe C, I've read that Roy was offered as much as £6 million for a fight with Joe, and he responded by demanding £10 million (much more than Roy had ever made at that point). Remember that Joe had already agreed to come to Vegas to fight Hopkins.

When Roy was campaigning at MW-SMW, the likes of Mclellan, Jackson, Nunn, Eubank, Benn, Liles and Collins were in the same divisions and around their primes, Roy didn't fight any of these guys. This is where I think Roy missed out on the opportunity to really enhance his legacy

 

Hi pal!

I've just read your great response in the Hearns thread. I really enjoyed reading that. I'll reply soon.

I respect everything you've just typed, but my point is, Roy's good wins always get overshadowed, by Frazier and Kelly etc. Which in my opinion is ridiculous!

I think Roy blatantly ducked two of those fighters, but the others had different circumstances involved. I'm not going to make a long list of excuses for him, but some of the fights in my opinion weren't even relevant or viable.

You can't give him stick for swerving Collins, and then fighting Reggie instead, in a unification fight.

He was never going to stay at MW for a long time, because when he became established in his early 20's, he was too big at the weight. Jackson would have been a great fight. But Roy was weighing between 163-168 for most fights between 92 and 94. He was too young in 91 to be fighting people like Nunn, Toney and Jackson. He'd done nothing at that point, and was just coming through.

By the time he fought Hopkins in 93 and was somewhat established, he knew that he had to move up. It was too hard to make 160 at 24. So I think it would be unfair to say he should have fought the likes of Jackson when he was at middle.

At 168 he beat Toney who'd beaten Nunn, and he was the best guy in the division.

Benn was never viable because King was demanding a three fight option on Roy. We've discussed this numerous times. Don King's greed and ego stopped a great fight from happening. Roy was more than willing to fight Benn on a one fight contract.

Eubank was never viable. He was happy at home, and never had any intentions of fighting in the U.S.

We've discussed Joe to death also. He can shout how he chased Roy all he wanted. If you think he was genuine, I respect your opinion. But in my opinion it was all hot air. You can't chase a guy like Roy while your fighting in a different weight class, in a different Country. You can't also demand the crown jewels, when outside of europe, you're relatively unknown. None of that makes sense.

Also Frank could never have brought Roy over to the U.K. It wasn't financially viable.

Joe had to make a name for himself in the U.S. to make that a big fight. But nobody knew who he was til 2006, and nobody saw him til 2008.

Regards, Loudon.

 

Bernard Hopkins-22-1, physcially in his prime.

James Toney 44-0. undefeated, in his prime. Jones clowned him.

Destroyed Thulani Malinga who went on to beat Nigel Benn.

Beat world class Reggie Johnson,a man who held a win over Steve Collins by a wide decision.

Fought Jorge Castro a 100+ fight former world champ veteran in his 19th fight.

Annihilated Clinton Woods who went 1-1-1 with Glen Johnson,and became IBF champ.

Took HOF Virgil Hill out in the 4th.

Beat undefeated Julio Cesar Gonzales,the man who went on to retire Dariuz Michaelchewski

Went up and beat prime Ruiz, who was a top 5 heavyweight at the time and who outweighed Jones by 30 lbs.

Beat Tarver first time out.

Beat up Eric Harding who defeated Antonio Tarver

Destroted Montell Griffin in a little over a minute,who had 2 wins over James Toney.

Thats quite an impressive collection of cab drivers.

Who exactly were all these fighters he "ducked" Dariusz wouldnt come to America. Eubank has openkly admitted he didnt want to fight Jones when he was in his prime and has said it was because he was afraid Jones would beat him. Only at the end of his career did Eubank say he tried to make the fight.

Jones and Collins were actually close to a deal,but Collins collapsed in training in his comeback fight.

 

I'm sorry but that 'physically' in his prime means very little.

Wladimir was 'physically' in his prime at age 26 against Corrie Sanders.


There is no way in hell Roy fought even close to a prime Hopkins

 

Shut up Rico.

This content is protected

 

Thanks mate, take your time, no rush.

That's a very good point, you're post was spot on in that regard. Just because he fought the likes of Frazier, doesn't detract from him beating the likes of Malinga.

With Collins, it was a fight that the fans wanted, Collins wanted it, pretty much everyone but Roy wanted it. Some of the fights he made instead were terrible. That's my issue with it.

As for Nigel Benn, I found this post from General Zod




[url]http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12500786&postcount=350[/url]


Personally, I don't think Roy wanted anything to do with Benn, who was a murderous puncher and was relentless. When had he fought someone like that? We know Roy didn't like that kind of pressure

Fair enough, I think it's fair to agree to disagree on this one. We can only speculate on it, what's reality is that took years for Joe to get a big fight made against Lacy. After that though, Joe did make the big fights against Kessler and Hopkins

In conclusion, no doubt that Jones beat some good to very good fighters in his time, his legacy is secure. However, when assessing his career, with the talent and position in the sport that he had, I just can't help but think he could have done even more if he really wanted to. Hope that makes sense

Regards

 

Yes and Wlad was supposed to win that fight.

Hopkins was established, was fighting his 24th professional fight, was 28th and was considered good enough to fight for a world title.
He may have gotten slightly better afterwards.

But the whole "green" argument,doesnt fly.

 

The only way in which Hopkins improved after the first Roy Jones fight is that he started cheating more.
If he's in a fight with a competent referee, all his new found "skills" become useless

 

You are an idiot.

 

Hi mate, Great reply!

I think British fans wanted the fight with Collins, but I don't think there was much call for it in the U.S. People wanted him to fight Reggie Johnson. But I get your point, of course Roy went on to fight people like Frazier, who obviously weren't as good as Collins. But Roy turned him down for a bigger fight, against the guy who'd beaten him. But I give him a hell of a lot of credit, because not many people went after him like he did. Collins was frightened of nothing and nobody.

Zod's links are great! There's more than that, what he posted up a while ago. He would have been very dangerous for Roy. But like I said last week, I bet if Roy had beaten him, he probably wouldn't have gotten any credit. People would have said Eubank and Watson had already beaten him. I don't think Roy really wanted to fight him, but I think he definitely would have, if it hadn't have been for King. I think Don was stupid there. Because if Roy had have been happy with the deal, he probably would have used him again. A lot of fighters were intimiditated by King, everyone who he ever worked with, he ended up falling out with them at some point. Roy used him very reluctantly in his career, only for about 3 or 4 fights I believe.

Yep on Joe, we'll agree to disagree. But the facts are, it took him 9 years to Unify the division, and he didn't show his face in the U.S. til he was 35/36. He starved himself to make 168 to fight guys like Manfredo for U.S. exposure, when he could have gone over a lot sooner, and he could have had big fights at 175 for more money. He was good enough to beat guys like Tarver and Johnson, but he didn't want them.

I respect your point, saying that Roy could have done a lot more with his career. But his resume is still good. A lot of good/great fighters who Roy beat with ease, went on to do good things after Roy had beaten them. I think Roy's resume is better than Benn's, Eubank's, Collins's, Joe's, and DM's etc. It's a common misconception saying he just fought Cops etc. I know you don't say that, but a lot of people do. He fought a fair few bums, and a lot of very good fighters.

Regards, Loudon.