Record: beat 4 current or future Hall of Famers, and 18 past, reigning or future world champions. Excluding the Griffin DQ loss he has something like 23 consecutive title wins - not just wins but near total shutouts and brutal stoppages. He compiled a 10 year stretch as totally dominant champion and world P4P best fighter, without being defeated or even seriously troubled in the ring. The only guy he arguably ducked was a protected/hometown Euro LHW who had at least 1 dodgy decision win and refused to come to fight Jones in the USA. Jones didn't want to risk a hometown decision after his robbery at the olympics, so I give him a pass on this and don't consider him a "ducker". Achievements: dominant 10 year reign across 3 divisions' linear titles, and captured 1 alphabet heavyweight title (first former middleweight champion to do so for over a century). Was rated "fighter of the decade" and spent the 90s at the top of the P4P list. Boxing skills and ability: arguably the best ever athlete in the sport; once played a pro basketball game before winning a title fight later in the day, an unprecedented athletic achievement. Famous for great feats in the ring like his "behind the back" KO, his "chicken move" knockdown on James Toney, the rib-breaking body shot on Virgil Hill. Renowned for scoring lop-sided shutouts even against world class opposition. Fastest hands ever at middleweight and up. Brutal KO power in both hands, although his safety-first style meant he often was content to cruise to easy points wins. Superb reflexes meant he rarely got hit flush in his prime. Great speed of foot as well meant he was hard to catch and corner. Only real downsides were his chin - not bad but not exactly rock solid either; and his lackluster late-career performances (like most speed-based fighters he faded in his mid 30s.) Head to Head: nightmare matchup for almost any style or boxer, due to his extreme speed, reflexes, footwork, and power. Reminiscent of other quick slicksters like young Ali, Leonard, Robinson, who were also extremely hard to beat and were capable of beating anyone. Arguably the most likely to beat the greatest proportion of the top 10 ATGs in his division(s). Overall: personally I think Jones is a top 5 LHW, and I would actually favour him in a H2H series with almost every other middle/LHW ATG, including Moore, Tunney, and Spinks. No one else was as quick or athletic, few had superior power in both hands, and only a tiny handful have a superior record. His lopsided dominations of Toney and Hopkins give a great idea of how he would fare against other great fighters who lacked truly unique/otherworldy skills. I think only really Greb and Charles have a chance to be favourites over prime RJJ, and even that is not certain. Roy Jones Jr is seriously underrated.
Thing is, no one knocks guys like Ali or Leonard's ranking for not quitting in time, or guys like Charles or Louis. They are willing to look past the faded shadow of a former boxer, and look at the prime and near-prime performances.
Roy Jones Jr is overrated. The best Light Heavyweight he ever defeated was named Antonio Tarver, the same man who would defeat Jones in subsequent rematches. His supposed aura of invincibility in his prime wasn't only as a result of his supreme talent, but also for his uncanny ability to price himself out of fights and go on to fight over-matched opposition, again and again. Wonderful fighter, but I don't see anyone with any credibility ever crediting him as being a top 5 Light Heavyweight. Stupidity. As a side note, Bernard Hopkins was a far cry from his brilliant best back when those two fought. It's absolutely no indication whatsoever of what a 6'2 Michael Spinks would have done to Jones at 175lbs.
I'm saying there's no way in hell that Jones beat the level of competition at 175lbs to warrant a top 5 placing. Spinks, Foster, Tunney, Moore and Charles are all ahead of Jones and by some margin at that weight.
Careful Foster's comp wasn't all that great either,although the manner in which he disposed of it most definately was. Jones is a top 10ish Lt Heavy for mine but I agree he's behind all the guys you mention and probably a few others as well.
I might be trying to cause problems. ... But, what you're saying is that no credible person would ever credit Jones a top 5 placing among LHW? Is this not what you said, not what you meant? I mean, hey if you're going to throw the gasoline like that from the gecko you must always keep with that position. I know you're confrontational, but Jersey Joe is a good poster regardless how wrong or non-credible you think he is.
Yes, I've seen many rank Jones over Foster. I don't, but Foster is on the bottom side of my top 10 list last time I checked.
True enough, but Foster did what a great champion does with average competition, he blew the majority of them into orbit. 14 title defenses, and his devastating knockout of Tiger trumps anything Jones ever did as a Light Heavyweight.
The Tiger KO was brutal but Bob was a big Lt Heavy and Tiger a small old one no matter how tough he was,so I don't rate it as highly as his destruction of Rondon or win over Finnegan. Jones was almost as dominant as Foster was,he just didn't blow them out as quick (different style,mindset etc) so their reigns are sort of similar ie long dominant reign over good but less than outstanding opposition. But Foster's reign was better imo as some of his displays of brute power were chilling and give him the edge over Jones and his safety first performances.
One doesn't need to argue for him being in the Top 5 at 175 to establish the OP's case. I think Jones probably is under-rated in a P4P sense. Presumably, ability has to be one of the foremost considerations when ranking a fighter - perhaps the foremost consideration. Given that Jones' H2H ability from 160-168 is probably better than anybody in any weight division ever, and that that at 175 is not far behind, it does seem perverse when he is ranked outside the top 50. (Didn't Bert Sugar rank him eighty-something?)
Also bear in mind that most of Jones' opponents only avoided getting KO'd because they were permanently on their bike. It may still be a slight knock on his record, but it certainly doesn't diminish him in terms of ability.
