Roy Jones Jr ducking Steve Collins

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by The Slaps, Jan 19, 2020.


  1. The Slaps

    The Slaps New Member Full Member

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    Maybe not as big in America or the UK but this was huge in Ireland.
    Through 95 to 97 Steve Collins chased Roy Jones Jr and through empty promise after empty promise it forced Collins into retirement when a last stipulation was put forward by Jones's side for Collins to fight Eubank first for a 3rd time, already 2-0 up Collins had no interest in this and retired in 97.

    The fight was scheduled to go ahead again in 99, with Collins due to fight Calzaghe first but he collapsed in the ring in training and the fight was called off, he has still chased this fight for the last 20 years since. 2013 it was being thrown around again and very recently. Although a match between these now would be a sad case.

    What I want to know is why do you think Jones Jr had no interest or dodged Collins. Did he see him as dangerous or not high profile enough. Business sense Collins would of filled any stadium in the world circa 97 the Irish would of travelled in numbers to Outer Mongolia to see him fight Jones. Pay-per-view, whether or not the Irish Americans were big on Collins they would of easily been dragged onto the bandwagon for this fight. Collins 2 years in retirement in 99 they were still going to offer each boxer over a million guarantee each.
    I know at the time the US and Europe had their little spat at the middleweight division and in 97 Roy Jones Jr was focusing on Light Heavy but Collins could make Light Heavy, the 99 fight was scheduled to be at light heavy and Jones could easily drop back down to Junior Light Heavy.

    I'm not saying the Celtic Warrior would of beatin Jones Jr. But it never happened so you never know. My heart says Collins between 95-97, my brain says Jones Jr has too much skills. I'm more looking for reasons why Jones Jr didn't fight him (cause it certainly wasn't financial) rather than the possible result but if you want to give your bit on either I'll be delighted.

    Collins quote on Jones Junior "I would fight him in a phone box in front of two men and a dog"
     
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  2. Eye of Timaeus

    Eye of Timaeus Active Member Full Member

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    Jones would win wide but Collins would have roughed him up.
     
  3. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails Full Member

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  4. Smokin Bert

    Smokin Bert Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Although, I respected Collins a lot, and feel he could hang tough with almost any fighter, at no point did anyone on this side of the pond give Collins a chance of beating Jones. And he just wasn't a big enough name in America. You can't really duck a fight when nobody but Collins was calling for it.
     
  5. Serge

    Serge The Baddest Man on the Planet Staff Member

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    Sorry bro, I'm strictly a General forum type of guy. This place is crawling with alts. In fact, it's almost as bad as the Training forum.

    Here's an in depth breakdown of the whole Roid ducking Collins saga by the poster Joe Boxer aka ''The Longest Duck in History''

    This content is protected
     
  6. DavidBarnes

    DavidBarnes New Member Full Member

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    That is a terrible thread lol
     
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  7. lloydturnip

    lloydturnip Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Collins got knocked out by Howard Eastman in sparing .that's why he packed up
     
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  8. The Slaps

    The Slaps New Member Full Member

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    If that was even true which I doubt it and was doubted at the time of the rumour. It doesn't matter either way because it was only sparring i.e training. You hit hard, you hit easy, you block shots without hitting back, you hit fast, you try hit flyweights, tiny fellas unload on big fellas, you spar 3, 4, 5 fellas in a row, it's training and that's all it ever is. If it gets heated it's usually stopped. Not always though :) either way it's not a fight.
     
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  9. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Collins was a tough guy but Jones would have schooled him.
     
  10. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    By 1996 Jones was at LHW.
     
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  11. Seamus

    Seamus Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I thought Collins had a bad scan on this noggin.

    I had a good time at his brother's bar in Dublin back in the 90's.
     
  12. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    He had 3 fights in 1996, one at LHW, one in-between weights and the other at 168.
     
  13. The Slaps

    The Slaps New Member Full Member

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    I think he had one recently. He had a scan in 99 after he collapsed and he was cleared but the scrap had already been called off.
     
  14. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    If that's not a sign of mental illness, then I don't know what is.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  15. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The Slaps,

    First of all, welcome to the forum.

    I've never heard of this stipulation.

    I'll give you my take on what happened, and if possible, I'll try and find you some old links.

    First off, Collins was an absolute warrior with a will of iron. And despite what many people think, there were only a very small number of fighters who genuinely wanted to fight Roy back when he was prime. And of course, Collins was one of them. So I have huge respect for him for that.

    Before I give you my timeline of what happened, we have to ask the question:

    Did Roy fear fighting him?

    In my honest opinion, no he didn't. And I say that with full confidence, based on who Roy fought, the information I've gathered from over the years, and what Collins would have brought to the ring, stylistically.

    Again, Collins had huge belief in himself. He had a great chin. He was a warrior. But was that enough to intimidate the world's best fighter?

    In my honest opinion, his style wouldn't have been hard for Roy to have overcome.

    Collins wasn't huge in stature. He didn't have a huge reach or a reach advantage. He didn't have elite level skills. He wasn't incredibly fast. He wasn't a southpaw. He didn't have huge one shot knockout power. He wasn't hard to hit.

    He wasn't a Nunn type fighter, who was a huge southpaw with a huge reach, with fantastic skills, speed and balance etc.

    Stylistically, he had nothing to trouble Roy. A big heart and a great chin can only take you so far.

    His claim to fame was beating a faded version of Eubank in a very close fight, and a washed up Nigel Benn.

    Eubank and Seiller both had him down.

    So is it really logical to think that Roy feared him, considering that he fought guys like: Hopkins, Toney, Griffin, Hill, Johnson, Ruiz and Tarver etc?

    Is it logical for a fighter who feared Collins to have pursued Liles, Dariusz and a Hopkins rematch?

    For me, there would have been no logic in him fearing a guy who'd had a close fight with Eubank, and who was the same size, and who held no offensive advantages over him.

    Roy was much faster. He was more skilled. He had one punch knockout power in either hand. He used a bigger arsenal of shots, and he had a much better defence.

    Personally, I don't buy the theory that Roy feared him.

    Below is my timeline of events from memory and research:

    (I'll try and get some links)

    1996:

    If you've read the thread that you were directed to, you will have seen an in-ring interview that Roy conducted live on air before he fought Bryant Brannon. Now as you've probably gathered, the member who started the thread hates Roy, and possibly me more. And what he wants you to do, is to ignore that particular HBO video, yet watch the other one which showed where Larry Merchant criticised his opposition. But you can't do that for obvious reasons. Because if HBO criticised him live on air, then why would they fabricate their defence of him also live on air? Also, Frankie Liles' manager at the time, Jack 'OHalloran, claims that a fight with Roy was set up, but Liles blew it by going back and asking for more money. And O'Halloran says that he was so angry with him for doing that, he left shortly afterwards. And one of the reasons why he was so angry is because he genuinely believed that Liles would have beaten him. So he was very frustrated. And as well as that video, there was also an article from the same period, where Lou DiBella of HBO also confirms what was said in that interview. So personally, I've no reason to doubt it. At the time of that video, Collins was preparing for a rematch with Nigel Benn. And when Roy couldn't secure a unification for the WBA and WBC belts, he made the decision to move up to LHW.

    1997:

    After Collins had rematched Benn, his team made an offer to Roy's advisors for a fight. This was in February of 1997, whilst Roy was in camp preparing for his first fight with Montell Griffin. During his camp, Roy was interviewed. In the interview, Roy stated that after he'd fought Montell Griffin, he wanted a big fight with Virgil Hill, as he was still a big name with 2 of the divisions main belts, the WBA and the IBF. Roy then fought Griffin in March. Due to how the fight ended, Roy's only focus at that point was the rematch. The rematch then happened in August of that year. Afterwards, Michael Nunn became his LHW mandatory, and he was also toying with the idea of fighting a huge fight at HW. Meanwhile, Collins was set to fight Calzaghe in October, but he told Frank Warren that he didn't have the motivation to go ahead with it. Eubank was then offered the opportunity at short notice. Collins then retired.

    1999:

    There was a bit of friction in Roy's camp, as he'd taken on board Murad Muhammad, in the hope of him raising his profile and getting him the biggest fights available. But at the same time, he still and Fred and Stan Levin working with him. When Roy fought a low level mandatory in Ricky Frazier early on in the year in Pensacola, Steve Collins was sat at ringside. After the fight, Larry Merchant criticised the mandatory and who Roy was scheduled to fight next. They didn't want to see him in bouts that they saw as a complete waste of time, even though Roy was obligated to fight them. If you watch the video from the thread which you were directed to, you'll see who the network wanted him to fight instead. And one of the fighters was Reggie Johnson who was the IBF belt holder at the time. After Merchant had interviewed him, Collins then stepped through the ropes to challenge him.

    Now from what I've read, when the dust had settled, Roy gave Stan Levin the go ahead to try and make the fight with Collins' team. But at around the same time, Murad Muhammad had a meeting with Lou DiBella. And whilst Stan Levin was trying to start negotiations, Murad and DiBella both agreed that they didn't want the fight for Roy. DiBella was concerned about Roy's opponents and the criticism Roy and the network had received, and he preferred a unification fight with Reggie Johnson instead. And Muhammad agreed with that, as it was a bigger fight. DiBella's other issue, was that Collins hadn't fought at LHW before, and he'd been in active for around 2 years. Afterwards, Muhammad then met Roy and steered him towards the Johnson fight instead. Upon meeting with Muhammad, Roy then spoke to Levin and told him to pull the plug on negotiations with Collins, which left Stan Levin in a very awkward position. Levin was very angry with Roy, as he'd felt disrespected. Various media outlets at the time put out stories that there was a lot of unrest in the camp. However, in his meeting with Muhammad, DiBella did say, that if possible, he'd like to see Collins face Calzaghe, with the winner potentially getting a shot at Roy further down the line, if it was viable. Then shortly afterwards, Collins managed to get a slot on the undercard of Joe Calzaghe's fight with Rick Thornberry. But in the lead up to the bout, he suffered a concussion in sparring, which led to a doctor advising him to retire. He then withdrew from the bout and retired shortly afterwards. And as per DiBella and Muhammad's wishes, Roy fought Reggie Johnson to the unify the LHW division.

    Personally, I just think the timing was wrong. Their timelines just didn't match up. Their circumstances were very different. Whilst in Britain and Ireland it may have been a huge fight, there was no huge demand for it in the U.S. even though there was a large Irish contingent in Boston. And targeting big names like Virgil Hill for unifications and huge money, was more appealing to him than fighting a guy like Collins for less money for a lightly regarded WBO belt. That's my honest take on things. But I think that under different circumstances, Roy would have been willing to have fought him.

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
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