ROY JONES JR or PERNELL WHITAKER

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by DINAMITA, Jul 22, 2008.


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  1. BENNY BLANCO

    BENNY BLANCO R.I.P. Brooklyn1550 Full Member

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    Pernell was so talented even in him being shot that he still won a couple of rounds against Tito.
     
    BENNY BLANCO, Jul 22, 2008
    BENNY BLANCO, Jul 22, 2008
    #31
  2. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Comparing old Whitaker to prime Whitaker is alot more valid that any comparison between killer robot Trinidad and Tazmanian Duran.
     
    Stonehands89, Jul 22, 2008
    Stonehands89, Jul 22, 2008
    #32
  3. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    Power
     
    Robbi, Jul 22, 2008
    Robbi, Jul 22, 2008
    #33
  4. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

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    I don't want to discredit Jones a lot. There was a recent thread about the best fighters of the last 20 or so years, and picked him as #3 there. Roy Jones move to heavyweight has lost its luster since a fighter that would probably still lose to him, James Toney, has gone on to totally eclipse his accomplishment. Jones beat Ruiz. Toney beat Holyfield, Ruiz, narrowly lost to Peter in their first fight, drew with and defeated Rahman. Toney's accomplishments are great for a modern blown-up middleweight. Before anyone starts crying "steroids," remember Jones has a positive test in his past as well.

    Whitaker got a chance to prove his worth against several pound for pound claimants, while Jones only had the opportunity of meeting one.

    Here's my post from the other day:
     
    rekcutnevets, Jul 22, 2008
    rekcutnevets, Jul 22, 2008
    #34
  5. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    Me too. The only one i could see beating Duran at 135 beside Whitaker would be Napoles. Well, what about Leonard or other real oldtimers? Don´t know that much about their style.

    on topic: I picked Whitaker and it isn´t even that close. A Jones - Hopkins comparison or a Jones - DLH comparison would be more fair. These are the 4 fighters which imo are the nearest at the fab4 recently.
     
    Loewe, Jul 23, 2008
    Loewe, Jul 23, 2008
    #35
  6. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    Well, both won titles in 4 divisions and imo Whitaker´s win over Velasquez is more worth than Jones´ over the Quiet Man - and i´m one of the few who actually like that guy, always comes in in shape, always wants to fight the best, and he is a very sympathic guy.
     
    Loewe, Jul 23, 2008
    Loewe, Jul 23, 2008
    #36
  7. Holmes' Jab

    Holmes' Jab Master Jabber Full Member

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    Whitaker is higher P4P. I have him at just outside the Top 10, whilst Jones Jr is around the fringes of my top 20.
     
    Holmes' Jab, Jul 23, 2008
    Holmes' Jab, Jul 23, 2008
    #37
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Whitaker, by the slenderest of margins.

    But Jones could still topple him...
     
    McGrain, Jul 23, 2008
    McGrain, Jul 23, 2008
    #38
  9. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    *Sigh*

    Nice to know people have absolutely no conception of 'pound for pound.'

    It's very difficult to choose. I might take Jones by a hair.
     
    fists of fury, Jul 23, 2008
    fists of fury, Jul 23, 2008
    #39
  10. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    I don't know how you take my 'brutal and brilliant' comment about Duran to mean just punching power. That's all Trinidad had (as we saw when he went up against someone who could actually box like DLH or Hopkins or Winky), Duran had so so much more to his game than just power.
     
    DINAMITA, Jul 23, 2008
    DINAMITA, Jul 23, 2008
    #40
  11. Hatesrats

    Hatesrats "I'm NOT Suprised..." Full Member

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    Throw me down for
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    Very underated chin and his Defense was Pep'ish at it's best.

    Jones jr. just never really seemed to give everything he had sometimes.
    (Either he couldn't, or wouldn't take many chances at all? We might never know)
     
    Hatesrats, Jul 23, 2008
    Hatesrats, Jul 23, 2008
    #41
  12. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest


    I think it's an excellent point that Jones's win over Ruiz has been eclipsed by Toney. It is not rated as the greatest achievement in recent history because of that, and because of the standard of opposition (Ruiz = shite).

    But his HW win isn't a major reason why I think he is ever so slightly ahead of Whitaker. You are correct in that Whitaker beat more pound-for-pound claimants, but RJJ arguably beat 2 all-time greats that were better than any 2 on Whitaker's record (RJJ beat Toney & Hopkins, Whitaker has Chavez on resume who he didn't technically beat. Chavez was better than Toney or Hopkins, but I think both Toney & Hopkins are better in all-time P4P terms than Azumah Nelson or anyone else on Whitaker's record).

    Also, Jones's resume includes knockout wins over 2 world class light-heavys in Virgil Hill and Montell Griffin as soon as he moved up to his 3rd world title weight, and wins over Mike McCallum (ok, he was well past his best but still a quality operator) and Tarver (who went on to become undisputed LHW champ). So there is some quality on that resume.

    My last reason is very very subjective, and I don't expect most to agree with this, but it's that RJJ had a better KO ratio and more power. I understand that that wasn't Whitaker's style and he more than made up for it in boxing skills, I do understand that and I think Whitaker is amazing. But, my own subjective opinion is that boxing in essence should be a sport about KOs. Boxers should not be setting out to win on points, they should be setting out to win by KO. This is primarily an entertainment sport, not an art form. I think a dominant KO win beats a beautiful exhibition of boxing skills that ends in a points win. Therefore, I give the edge to RJJ as the marginally greater fighter on my own personal criteria. As I said, I don't expect many on here to agree and I fully respect the opposite view, that Whitaker's greater skills mean he is greater than Jones's combination of slightly less skill but more power.
     
    DINAMITA, Jul 23, 2008
    DINAMITA, Jul 23, 2008
    #42
  13. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    Who said Trinidad was a better fighter than Duran? Not me. I'm just highlighting the fact that a shot Whitaker took Trinidad's power at welterweight and he hit much harder than Duran did at lightweight. That doesn't mean that I'm making a case for Trinidad being superior over Duran in terms overall capabilities or greatness.
     
    Robbi, Jul 23, 2008
    Robbi, Jul 23, 2008
    #43
  14. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Then I don't really understand the significance then. I wasn't suggesting for a minute that Duran would KO Whitaker with 1 shot. He was a far far greater fighter than Trinidad, so the fact Trinidad didn't stop Whitaker doesn't mean anything re my opinion that Duran could stop him late if they fought as peak lightweights. Totally different fighters, totally different fight. Trinidad didn't stop him, I think Duran could, as he is a far better fighter and would drag Whitaker into his fight.
     
    DINAMITA, Jul 23, 2008
    DINAMITA, Jul 23, 2008
    #44
  15. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Comparing the two in terms of power doesn't bolster the Duran-Whitaker argument either way. You know that the power differential between Duran and Trinidad isn't going to make a difference because their styles are completely different.

    Whitaker took Tito's shots. So what? That doesn't mean that Whitaker would stand up to Duran's shots because the fact is, Tito doesn't punch as quickly, as closely, or as often as prime Duran. Never mind the myriad other advantages Duran has offensively, defensively, and simultaneously.
     
    Stonehands89, Jul 23, 2008
    Stonehands89, Jul 23, 2008
    #45
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