Roy Jones Jr. Top 100 ATG?

They don't keep the lineal title alive. You know this as well as I do. Most of those titles have been vacated and only re-established using the ABC belts. So like I said, you place too much emphasis on lineal titles. It is very clear that the best fighters no longer always hold the lineal title. Erdai is a perfect example of this. You are promoting "title makes the fighter" and that's not good for the sport.

 

Spit him in the face and he tells you it's rain...

 

Bert Sugar tells nice stories but his list is ******ed. Lennox Lewis is not even in his top100, nor in his top20 HW's only. What a complete ******.

Same for Orishaman. Liles over Jones?

Joey Archibald??? Are we talking about the 52-42 Archibald here?
Yeah his 42 losses are definitely more impressive than Jones' being completely untouchable for 10 years. Manuel Ortiz? 100-40 Joe Brown? Duililo Loi? Fidel La Barba? I don't even know those two. Floyd Patterson? He was floored over 30 times in his career, including by journeymen. Did he dominate a division for 10 years? No, he had a short title reign which was extended because he ducked Sonny Liston for 2 years.

Roy Jones was unbeatable for 10 years, did not just beat but dominate both Toney and Hopkins.. both whom had more fights than Jones by the way, before you bring up the "green" excuse. Both Toney and Hopkins would go on to be succesful for another decade, barely losing fights and never losing in the way they did to Jones, that should tell you something. It took a big heavyweight at the end of Toney's career to receive another one-sided beating like that.

He also picked up a title at heavyweight and not by a close decision but by winning the vast majority of the rounds. You can say Ruiz sucked and all that, but you can list me the other middleweights in the history of the sport who picked up a title against a talented 220+ pound heavyweight.. i can guarantee you that list is very, very short.


I thought you were a good poster before, but you've completely made a fool out of yourself here and lost ALL credibility. Everyone else is a nuthugger because only 5 people out of 120 supported your opinion?

Ever noticed that someone with down syndrom thinks that everyone else is very weird and all that? If everyone else is weird, perhaps it's you yourself.... and no i didn't call you a ******, although it surely is ******ed not to have Jones in a top100 list.

 

The only one making a fool of himself in here is you by questioning the legitimacy of my choices, obviously you don;t know boxing history nor his less notorious heroes...Duilio for example was trememdous LW that got ducked all during his prime in boxing and it was not after his prime tha he won the JRWW title defeated ATG Carlos Ortiz twice and lost one to Ortiz retired champ, lineal champ, he was not given a shot until his 30's...Among Loi's best known victims are former lightweight champ Wallace "Bud" Smith (ko9), Orlando Zuleta, Conny Rudhoff, Eddie Perkins (another forgotten champ, who if not great, was a very slick, strong all around fighter with no weakness'), & of course, Ortiz.

Manuel Ortiz, another great lineal champ when lineality ment everything...obscure to fans like you.....

Archibald another lienal champ lost his title recoup it and lost it to Pep....boxers in that era boxed many times a month, sure he lost some but he won substatially more to great competition....

 

Give it up please

 

Top 10 there should be no doubts about it.

 

A couple of points...

Dulio Loi should almost certainly be included in a Top 100 list, if only due to the fact that he went 2-1 against the great Carlos Ortiz. Joe Brown is an outside candidate for Top 100, since he was one of the better lightweight champions in history (11 defences against very capable opposition is nothing to sneeze at.) Manuel Ortiz is very much in the same position as Brown (dominant champion at bantamweight in the 40's). It probably doesn't do any good to diminish these fighter's accomplishments to build up RJJ's legacy, since, quite frankly RJJ did more than enough to warrant placement in a Top 100.

Where to place him in the Top 100?

Like you say, he was close to untouchable for a decade, and defeated a number of very capable fighters. He did lose twice to Tarver, and was badly dominated by Glen Johnson, and, given his form in recent months, I'm not so certain that we can attibute those losses completely to an atrphy in skill-set.

Still, he's one of the most accomplished fighters in history, and a sure-fire first ballot entrant in the HOF. I, personally, don't rate active fighters in a Top 100...but I'm pretty certain that the moment Jones retires, I'll have a place for him well within my Top 40 or 50. And, even if he loses his nect ten fights, he should still be well within anyone's Top 100.

 

Excellent post!
RJJ is a top 30 ATG arguably higher.

 

Drew , very eloqunet and well presented post, concuring with my choices let me to beleive that you understand our history, yet I don;t understand you opinion on RJJ, I see your point, but you lost me when you said he should be a top 40 or 50...his competion was capable and he defeted them, but again, I beleive the problem with RJJ is simple, everyone has a tough time separating physical talent, abundance of attributes with qulaity as a BOXER...now that he is a HOF, I said before, he is an HOF, but HOF doesn;t translate to ATG....

 

On top of that...his resume is ridiculously underrated.

And accomplishments.....come on.

There is no way he isnt top 50. In all probability top 30 (thats where I have him). And you COULD make an arguement for top ten using H2H, skills, accomplishments, resume, etc.

To not have him up there is ridiculous....even for ESB. And that is saying ALOT!

 

Absolutely, he comfortably beat a young Hopkins and embarrassed the very good (not ATG) Toney. He fought many very good fighters and beat them all with ease in his prime. The same as what Calzaghe did. That is why these two are the best of the last decade, the best of all time.

This generation of fans have truly been blessed.

In 20 years time the vast majority of people will have him in their top 10 certainly top 20.

 

over-rated resume IMO

 

Agreed. Calzaghe is another one who has a ridiculously underrated resume. And on accomplishments, he is definately up there. Truely an underrated great.

Tho you know I put Hopkins and Jones as the best of the past decade. And both in the top 30 All Time (neck and neck if you ask me).

 

Yes mate.

A lot of very good fighters made to look average by arguably the best boxer to ever live.