Roy Jones Jr. versus Marvin Hagler

Hagler is a damn good example of a great fighter who's still paying for getting recognized late. Hagler reached the heights he deserved in 1985. He was fading quickly already. So, here is half the ESB posters forgetting that what he was in 1985 or 1987 was far less than the killer who avenged himself against Monroe or rolled over Minter. That Hagler is confused by the one who waltzed with Leonard.

Middleweight Roy Jones had about 26 fights as a MW. He was about 25 when he stepped up to the Super middles and had made one defense of his IBF title. That is not much of a pedigree is it. Jones whipped Hopkins and Castro. Who else? Is that experience enough to deal with the hell and the high water that 1980 Hagler is going to bring?

....And yet, Jones is a big favorite on this thread --even by the considerable Meta5.

Jones was a stylist. He was difficult because of the athletic powers he brought which included demonically fast heavy hands and timing. He was not the technician that some believe, but that is no knock. He fought well in his own way which is what a stylist is. Jones had real weaknesses too, but it was tough to see them and for some who don't know better, it's even tougher to see them when you're blinded by flash and power. Futch wasn't and he designed a plan for Montell Griffin that would have paid off well had it been implemented by even a younger MW Mike McCallum.

But Hagler? He would have been too much for Jones.

The assets that both had would see Jones, in my opinion, move into defensive mode. Let's not forget how dangerous an angry Hagler could be. Once that happens, Jones' potshots may not be enough for him to remain vertical at the end of the bout, never mind win a decision. This isn't 1987 Hagler we're talking about here!

Jones stopping Hagler anyway, anyhow --is remote. Not because of Jones' talent -because he was a physical dynamo, but because of the contrasting psychologies. Hagler will land on Jones. Jones is more likely to get hurt or at least cautious. Jones will land on Hagler. Hagler can be counted on to shake it off, and if Jones cuts him, what's Hagler gonna do? Stand there and bleed? No, he will blitz Jones.

Jones is hell to fight, but he is not a man you can bet your life will sign the contract, never mind cope aggressively with an angry, ambidextrous, and durable Hagler.

 

Pretty good post.

One more thing, this fight could probably get bloody.

 

What you say is true regarding the Leonard Jones comparison,but don't forget the Hagler of the Leonard fight was demonstrably past his best.

 

When has Roy ever been tired in a fight in his prime? When has Roy ever exhibited he did not have good boxing intellect? He is completely unorthodox, would be like no one that Hagler fought -- the closes is SRL. Jones definitely had more 1 punch power than Hagler, but Hagler of course had more constant attacks-- he utilize his power probably more effectively since it was more consistent.

 

A good angler always uses the right bait ... :hey

I knew I'd get you to wade in with some sort of comment. If you go back through what I've written, you'd see that I've talked about Roy having the physical attributes to give Hagler "PLENTY" to overcome. I still believe that to be true, but never have I definitively talked about the intangiables ... even with my mention of him not having the mental tendency to rumble in the jungle, I implicitly raise the variable of whether Roy can cope with Hagler.

I tend to agree on the experience thing, but I would point out that when you have stylists of the elite physical level of a Jones or an Ali, you sometimes don't need experience to defeat even the most experienced and technically sound fighter ... sometimes, all you need is speed. However, I also note that many times when these savants beat greater (at the time) fighters than themselves, it's because they got to them at the right time.

Yes, Futch would've implemented the exact gameplan for a prime Hagler and much moreso, I could see a prime Hagler implementing that style very much so. However, Hagler had the Petronelli corner and when up against the closest fighter to resemble RJJ in Leonard, the Petronelli allowed an admittedly past-prime Hagler to come out fighting the wrong fight against a fighter, who at that time, didn't hit as hard, nor was as fast of hand or foot as Roy.

Now, it should be noted and you have noted it, and I've bit my tongue on it, but the Hagler of the Leonard fight was in no way prime and the only thing I will draw as evidence is the Petronelli corner and the gameplan. I think that a fighter like Roy could implement the Leonard gameplan and steal a win on the judges' cards ... however, a younger, quicker, more snappier puncher in a Hagler that beat Obel and a Minter could get to that body much quicker and start the seek and destroy objective. In my mind, however, the winner of such a bout is far from a foregone conclusion.

If I had to bet my own property, I'd bet that I give it to Hagler by a round on my scorecard, but I honestly think that Roy would win the judges with the 'flash'.

Jones doesn't stop Hagler ... for me it's that simple. The psychologies, mr. ultra warrior versus apparently mr. ultra cautious. I mention Ali with Jones and in physical gifts, they are in the same echelon, but Ali went to war ... Jones ... I've seen him retaliate against B-Hop and throw counters in close, but he was quick to retreat. Perhaps, this is what allows Jones to not be drowned by Hagler's pressure or this is what allows Hagler to gain the higher ground and begin to break Roy down?

Some questions for you, squire, if you will ...

How much of an impact do you think Hagler's jab, sense of timing and distance negotiation will have?
Does Roy carry enough power to stop Hagler rolling through, thus persuading him to keep the fight on the outside?
Is there a gameplan that you can see Roy implementing to beat Hagler?
Do you think that Hagler winning is a foregone conclusion?
Is Hagler technician enough to completely offset Roy's physical advantages?
Would this potentially be the toughest head to head battle that Hagler faces at MW?

 

Hagler would find Jones glass jaw and shatter it.

 

True. That comparison should be taken with a grain of salt because of that. But that version of Leonard was also physically quite inferior to the Jones that beat Hopkins, I would say.

 

the stamina is based on that hagler could fight a high pace for 15 rounds, roy never really fought a high pace but he was never tired in his prime. Again Roy had a good boxing brain butg IMO Haglers was better.

Jones is unorthodox but hagler is clever so i think he could figure him out.

 

take that glass jaw crap back into the general section -- Roy never had a glass jaw. I guess Pavlik has a glass jaw for being rocked on a number of occasions by B-Hop, where Roy fought a more aggressive and younger version of B-Hop who hit him clean with hard shots many times in the fight and he was never hurt or rocked? And B-Hop was known as a boxer-puncher, that he had good power as he was KO'ing guys left and right.

 

Yea I see what you are saying. Hagler didn't figure out SRL though. If I remember correctly, didn't he fight in the beginning in his southpaw stance and had success but then for some reason elected to fight orthodox which was a bad decision?

 

He has a glass jaw

 

i thought it was the other way round. he came out orthodox.

He didnt figure out SRL but he figured out all his other opponents.

 

Jones' chin was largely untested at middleweight. He wasn't knocked down or out at 160, but that doesn't mean his chin was better than Hearns'. What it tells us is that his defense was better, not his punch resistance. I would tag Jones' chin with a question mark at middleweight. No opponent even dented it to see what it was made of. A chin can only be rated when it recieves a significant amount of impact.

 

He was tagged by few fighters at 160 to no effect. Hell he was tagged up to heavy without too much effect, although Ruiz sort of make his left leg wobble a little (nothing real big) when he hit him with 2 consecutive right hands in the opening round of their fight. After the first he was tagged and took them quit well.

At middleweight the most clear example of his chin would have to be in the fight with B-Hop -- B-hop landed some good right hands on Jones, there was one round in particular where he landed like 5 consecutive right hands, 3 of which were hard and Jones took them quite well. And although a lot of newbs who never followed B-Hops career somehow have figured he never had power, which is a lie -- at the time B-Hop and Jones was known to be the 2 biggest punchers at Middleweight at the time. I don't really think there is a question mark on his chin at 160 if you look at that fight. After all a older B-Hop had rocked pavlik in the 2nd and 12th round of their fight.

 

His defense, athleticism, and speed were the primarily the reasons why he never hit the canvas rather than showing a solidity with his jaw. Jones wasn't hit with anything at 160 like the punches Hagler landed on Hearns during the opening round or proceeding rounds for that matter. And I'm not sure Hopkins landed blows on Jones that had the same impact of Barkley's right hand bomb which felled Hearns. Not that I can recall anyway. Statistically, Jones' chin is better than Hearns' at middleweight. No dispute on that one.