Roy Jones Jr. versus Marvin Hagler

Jones would definitely give Hagler trouble with his speed. He would be ahead on the cards (though not by much). As the fight progressed, however, Marvin's tenacity begins to slow Roy down. Over 12 rounds, I see it coming down to a decision which could go either way. In a 15 rounder, I think that late in the fight, during the 13-14-15 stretch, Marvin TKO's a worn out Jones. Jones is a speedster like no other, but Marvin's mix of skill, power and persistence wins out in the end.

 

I don't think that Roy was that bad until he went up to 175lbs ... there, you had more of the antics, the DM situation and his general manner that pisses off your average fight fan when you consider the talent and IMO, how he wasted it. At the weight, RJJ was still looked at as a new sensation and with the HBO backing that he was to receive as well as the plaudits heaped on him after beating B-Hop and Toney, his rep was on the up, not on the down. Now, of course, Toney was at a higher weight than Marvin's prime, but the fact remains that at that time, IMO, he didn't garner the ill-feeling that he later would.

He wasn't as charismatic as Ali or a Leonard, but he did shine and more importantly, he did have a wow factor. When he threw in combination, the judges would be impressed because judges are people and people are generally awed with great physical talent. Hence, I make a distinction in what the judges might score and what I might score ... given Hagler's defensive methods, I envisage RJJ picking up points for punches that Hagler, either just slips and ducks under or rolls with in order to fire off his counters.

I do believe that Roy's unorthodox defence will be of benefit to him as long as he can keep the fight on the outside ... stay on the periphery and potshot, sharpshoot and offset what Hagler wants to do. Whether he could do so or not for 12 or 15 is the question and judging by the pedigree of their MW tenures, I'd be inclined to wager with Hagler ... however, I do recognise a good possibility that RJJ's style just might upset Hagler for a bout, with stylistic issues being remedied in return bouts.

I think RJJ could get caught more in corners than Leonard cos Leonard has fundamentally better footwork, however, with RJJ's better footspeed, it's also possible that as soon as his back touches the ropes/corner, knowing the imminent threat of Hagler, he's out of there. However, his 'willingness' to fight inside and mid-range (for minimal amounts of time) with Hop does make me think that perhaps Hagler could lull him into trading ... he doesn't wanna trade with Hagler.

What would you say to the argument that when you have someone as gifted physically as RJJ, he can go into certain match-ups without a strategy ... just fight the way he wants to i.e. using his physical advantages to better his opponent as he almost always has done? I do, however, think that against a prime Hagler, you need to have a strategy and employ tactics, not just to disuade Hagler, but to win the judges ... I'm not sure if a 24 yr old RJJ is humble enough to recognise that he cannot just treat a prime Hagler like any other opponent. Ego here could be either of the fighters' downfall.

I often think that Hop should've done that with Roy ... he tried to box with him and only pressed when it was too late and Roy had established his rhythm. Hagler did have the tools to do it ... whether he could achieve it or not, without Roy adapting is the question ... how do you see it?

We're agreed, but I think the bout may be closer than perhaps you may see it ... I think Roy soundly takes the first half dozen rounds or so, before Hagler's patient tactics start to come through and become the focal factor of the fight.

In a series of 10, I could see Hagler dropping 3 or 4 fights by points ... the rest, Hagler wins.

 

Good answer, META. However, although Jones was a bit of HBO darling as a MW he didn't have the star power or the reputation that Leonard did when he faced Hagler. In Leonard-Hagler, the judges weren't just swayed with the flash and the moves -it was more the drama unfolding, in my opinion. I can't see judges being swayed by the drama of 24 year old really-unproven upstart in their against a newly-crowned Marvin.

Anyway, that all may be beside the point anyway because 1980 Marvin probably wouldn't be taking it easy in there. He had murder in his eyes...

Well, Jones was demonic but I do think that his career and particularly his MW is inflated BIG-TIME on ESB based on only a few good wins that may have been more stylistically-based than based on things like adaptability, grand strategy, skill, will/coming back from adversity --the stuff that history's Greats are made of.

Jones' style was shock & awe:

If you try to box that, most would lose (Hopkins). If you are a counterpuncher (Toney), you're gonna have a problem because he's too fast and he's not where he's expected to be. I think that Jones wouldn't have enough to deal with most of the monsters in the division. Marvin most of all....

I'm pretty friggin sure that Hagler won't give him a choice but to stand and fight more often than Roy would ever be comfortable with. And over 15? Fughetaboutit.

Jones' "shock and awe" style is gonna be enough to clean out most guys in 3 divisions. Most guys.

My position is this: Underneath that athleticism is not the warrior's heart that he would need if he faced the hell that Greb or Hagler or Robinson would bring him. I see that opinion proven in his style, in his statements, and in the trajectory of his career. Also, there's this: When his speed and power aren't enough, what is Jones' plan B? It's a trick question. Have you ever seen Jones execute a plan B? No. His legions of drooling fans out here think that arguing that "Jones didn't need a plan B" redeems him. It does not. It's part of his problem.

Two things: Hopkins made the same mistake with Jones that Hagler did with Hagler. You don't want to box a boxer. They did, it cost them. They should've hired Nazeem Richardson.

I don't see Jones adapting. I don't think that he is going to cope well with sustained pressure from a guy as dead serious as Marvin was --psychologically or stylistically.

I could see Hagler dropping only so many as he chooses to be a dunce and follow him trying to outpoint him. Otherwise, aggression + technique + power + solid chin + experience = Jones loses and is lucky to see 12/15.

Again, Jones would beat most MWs in history because it took something special -a combination of assets to deal with that style and that level of talent. Marvin has that combination of assets... and then some.

 

Hagler

 

Hagler would hammer out a close decision or late kayo.

 

Roy Jones Junior could win this fight. I think Hagler probably does. Jones would be the best fighter Hagler ever faced.

 

i echo what Mr. Marvel said. Roy Jones would be the best opponent Hagler could hope for. He is unimaginably talented and the best opposition imaginable. Roy would head straight for Hagler without reservations in a multi million dollar showdown.

 

For all of jones talents I have to question his heart and chin, wich would surely be tested by hagler. He definitely had the tools to outbox hagler, but i can't help but feel that hagler would wear him down sooner or later.
He was stronger, applied great pressure and was the tougher man. Jones heart didn't match his abilities and he lacked mental toughness.

My pick is hagler by late round ko.

 

boy, hagler is a slow starter..jones would run

 

If you look at the late 70's Hagker, you also have to take into account that he lost twice to fighters not anywhere near Roy Jones.

Hagler was a good boxer, but what made him special was his physical toughness, chin, relentlessness. Those are not attributes to beat Roy Jones with. Jones went 12 rounds with John Ruiz, who is bigger, physically stronger than Hagler. Sure, Hagler is an ATG and Ruiz sucked big time, but H2H Ruiz beats Hagler. I also think that Virgil Hill has a 50% chance to beat Hagler and we saw what Roy Jones did with Hagler.

 

i know that a lot do not know this but hagler is p4p king for 4 straight years

 

Marvin was getting the acclaim he deserved even though it was two years late. First time around he won all but one vote. Following year his stock actually dropped on account of the Duran fight. Cant say I blame them. It was a very sub par performance. Surprisingly, the following year he won all first place votes and still had it in 1986 becuz he was still winning. But he was badly faded-nowhere near what he was.

 

No, this is not true. Hagler was actually known to be a very fast starter. the Minter fight, Lee, Hearns, Scypion, Sibson. the only guy who had success rushing him were Obel and Roldan

 

Snakefist7

You claimed that Jones and Hopkins were "the biggest punchers at Middleweight at the time".

NO...THEY WASN'T.

Julian Jackson and Gerald McClellan hit harder than Jones in 1993.

 

A prime Hagler taken 15 by a natural lightweight.