Roy Jones Jr. vs. James "Buster" Douglas

NWS · Jan 9, 2013

Loudon said: ↑

IntentionalButt,

Hi mate, good post, but I think you're been a little harsh.

There's a few things I don't agree with, which I'll gladly debate.

First off, like SJS19 has mentioned, Big Roy intervened.

They hadn't spoke properly for 6 years, and Big Roy wouldn't let him go through with it.

It's on Beyond the Glory, and he says "I aint saying he couldn't whoop him, but I wouldn't run a Volkswagen into a Big Mack truck."

Even though they hadn't spoke for a long time, Roy still respected him. Also it devastated Roy's sister who's extremely close to Roy, that they hadn't spoke for a long time. I'm a huge fan of Roy's, and over the years I've read countless articles, watched numerous interviews and watched all of his fight footage. In my honest opinion, there's three reasons why he didn't go through with the Douglas fight.

1. As discussed, Big Roy intervened, and it brought them together for the first time in a long while, and Roy's family were pleased.

2. One of Roy's main objectives at the time was to unify at 175. He did this the following year against Reggie Johnson.

3. He was only 29, and had time on his side. If he'd have been 34 like he was against Ruiz, then nothing and nobody would have stopped him going through with it. But at 29, he knew he'd get another opportunity.

After the Griffin rematch, he mentioned fighting Holy and moving up to heavy, but he wasn't entirely sure if he was going to go through with it.

He said "If i set my mind to it, I could do it, but it would be a huge sacrifice on my part and I'm not sure."

So his circumstances were different in 1998 to what they were in 2003.

But you are clearly implying that Roy ducked him and was scared to go through with it.

But lets look at things logically. Roy didn't fight Buster in his peak at 29, and ended up at heavy at 34. He fought Ruiz, and then tried to get Tyson (who fair enough was shot) and after seeing Vitali give Lewis hell, wanted Lewis.

Murad tried to secure those fights. You can have the links, and everything is on the free library. A guy who feared Buster at 29, would not even consider fighting Ruiz, Tyson and Lewis in his mid 30's. It's ridiculous.

When push came to shove in 1998, he didn't need to take the fight.

But in 2003, things were different. He'd unified at 175, and couldn't get the DM fight or the rematch with Hopkins, so he only had one remaining goal. That was to become the first guy in history to start out at 154, and then win a version of the heavyweight title.

His career was coming to an end, and he was on a mission. Big Roy couldn't have stopped him in 2002.

So I respect your opinion, but he didn't back out because he was afraid of Buster.

Like I say, after Ruiz, people were talking about a Lewis fight. Lewis was interviewed and he said, "Roy's a great fighter, but fighting me, would be a step too far!" Lennox saw Roy as an easy nights work for a huge amount of money. He was confident that Roy was too small, and he was up for the fight.

The Vitali fight threw everything up in the air. Nobody knew going into the fight, that it would be his last. Manny Steward, and Lennox himself hadn't planned it as a retirement fight. The performance against Vitali shocked him into retirement. He never anticipated a fight as hard as that, and afterwards, he knew it was time to let go. Before the fight with Vitali, Roy himself thought that fighting Lennox maybe a bridge too far, but afterwards, he told Murad to try and get the fight, because he was sure he could beat him at that point. Roy approached Lennox a few months later, and Lennox told Roy that he was definitely going to retire.

So again, Roy was wanting Tyson and Lennox at 34. Lennox walked away from a rematch against Vitali, and a fight with Roy that would have been worth millions and millions of dollars, because he was honest with himself and knew it was time to walk away.

The other point that I don't agree with, is that he targeted Ruiz because he was a weak champion. That was not the case. Roy's original target was Evander Holyfield. Roy and his team approached Evander late 2001, just prior to Holy's final bout with Ruiz. Talks had gone well, and everyone was happy. Holy then went and lost to Ruiz again, and that threw a spanner in the works. Afterwards Roy was asked if he still wanted the fight. Roy said no, because he didn't think he'd get any credit beating Holy at that point, and Ruiz was the champ.

So Roy remained at 175 for another year, and then told Murad to make him the Ruiz fight. You make it sound as though Roy went through a copy of The Ring mag with a marker and then put a circle around Ruiz's name. That's not what happened.

The Ruiz win is also completely underrated by haters, especially on here.

Ruiz wasn't a great heavyweight, but he was effective, and he wasn't garbage. He also outweighed Roy by over 2 stones on the night, and nearly 4 naturally. The fight split opinion and a lot of respected writers thought that Roy was in over his head despite being superior technically.

Who out of the super six for example could you envisage going up to fight anyone at heavy? Who currently at 175? There's a reason that Roy was the first person in 103 years to achieve it. If it was that easy then more people would have done it.

Roy didn't just win, he easily won. Ruiz wasn't a cherry pick, but even if he was, it was still impressive.

So like I say, I think you've been harsh. History has shown that he ended up at heavy. I think fighting Lewis at 34, after 50 fights, would have been a bigger risk than fighting Buster in 98, at 29 years of age.

Finally, had the fight gone through, I think Roy would have won a clear decision at that point, despite Buster having a huge size advantage.

Just out of curiosity, how would you have seen a Roy vs Valuev fight playing out?

Get back to me when you have the time.

Regards, Loudon.
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Have you found a publisher yet?

thawk888 · Jan 9, 2013

NWS said: ↑

Have you found a publisher yet?
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:rasta

Loudon · Jan 9, 2013

NWS said: ↑

Have you found a publisher yet?
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Ha!

NWS · Jan 9, 2013

Loudon's a BEAST. :deal

iceman71 · Jan 9, 2013

bottom line is jones was feeling cocky and called out buster douglas and buster accepted immediately. then jones went silent then changed his mind. end of story. it was a risk that he obviously didnt want to take after calling him out.

NoNeck · Jan 9, 2013

iceman71 said: ↑

bottom line is jones was feeling cocky and called out buster douglas and buster accepted immediately. then jones went silent then changed his mind. end of story. it was a risk that he obviously didnt want to take after calling him out.
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didn't want to fight a mediocre heavyweight who was in between getting iced by Monaco and Savarese. Sit your ass down, boy.

iceman71 · Jan 9, 2013

NoNeck said: ↑

didn't want to fight a mediocre heavyweight who was in between getting iced by Monaco and Savarese. Sit your ass down, boy.
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wtf ever. he got spooked and bitched out. stfu noob

NoNeck · Jan 9, 2013

I'm not new.

tommy the hat · Jan 9, 2013

Depends which Douglas showed up to the fight. If he showed up motivated and in shape like he was versus Tyson I see Douglas winning. If he came in out of shape and uninspired like he did versus Holyfield then I see Roy winning.

Imperial1 · Jan 9, 2013

I don't know Douglas was a big heavy ..Jones could have boxed to a decision but Douglas could have KO Ed Jones with one shot .Props to Jones for considering it but even Sr knew Douglas would have been to much.

NoNeck · Jan 9, 2013

Imperial1 said: ↑

I don't know Douglas was a big heavy ..Jones could have boxed to a decision but Douglas could have KO Ed Jones with one shot .Props to Jones for considering it but even Sr knew Douglas would have been to much.
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well, he was much worse than Ruiz so I don't know about that.

Imperial1 · Jan 9, 2013

NoNeck said: ↑

well, he was much worse than Ruiz so I don't know about that.
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That all depended on the Douglas that would come in he ring ,I mean Douglas holds a KO win over Tyson who had a chin of steel ..He was also taller than Ruiz and had a 83 inch reach advantage .

NoNeck · Jan 9, 2013

Imperial1 said: ↑

That all depended on the Douglas that would come in he ring ,I mean Douglas holds a KO win over Tyson who had a chin of steel ..He was also taller than Ruiz and had a 83 inch reach advantage .
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No, post diabetic coma he was worthless as a fighter. We aren't talking about 89/90 Douglas.

If we're talking about whether Jones was leery of fighting him, that's a different discussion altogether. But Jones would easily win if the fight did happen.

Imperial1 · Jan 9, 2013

NoNeck said: ↑

No, post diabetic coma he was worthless as a fighter. We aren't talking about 89/90 Douglas.

If we're talking about whether Jones was leery of fighting him, that's a different discussion altogether. But Jones would easily win if the fight did happen.
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Oh ok got you ..Still Douglas was a big boy though ..Can't overlook that no matter how bad he was .

Rumsfeld · Jan 9, 2013

NoNeck said: ↑

Jones would've stopped him, no sweat. Actually, I think Jones would beat any version of Douglas.
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IntentionalButt said: ↑

...2/11/90 Douglas? :shock:
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NoNeck said: ↑

Yes, him too. I'm pretty sure of that.
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Wow.

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