Roy Jones Jr Vs Marvin Hagler

Jones started at the same weight that Hagler finished his at. Trindad started much smaller than Hagler and fought most of his career much smaller, so his fighting over the weight one time is not going to change that he is the naturally smaller man. Hopkins started at LHW, is 6 ft tall, and most boxing insiders knew this would spell trouble for Trinidad. Point being, Trinidad moved up in weight for glory, putting on the weight in hopes of winning more titles. But he was naturally smaller than Hopkins, who was training to keep himself at MW, when he was naturally bigger than that weight class. Jones is a natural SMW.

 

Jones looked skinny at MW for the same reason Pavlik looks skinny, in order to make 160 he had to starve himself. Hagler being able to carry his muscular frame at MW shows he was natural at that weight. And I did predict Roy would beat Ruiz because of his supernatural speed and reflexes, attributes that Hagler didn't have. Hagler - Ruiz? Gimme a break, Hagler needed to apply pressure to win his fights, that works against Duran and Hearns, but not against a 220 pounder.

 

No he didn't.

 

Roy is a gym rat too. He's been well known for training hard in the gym and staying in shape.

However, he started out at 160, under different weigh-in rules, and moved up. He outgrew the weight class. He was big at 160. He later said on HBO when doing commentary that at 160, he was bigger and stronger than his opponents.

Hagler fought at middleweight his whole career. Him being able to move up to 175 is all speculation. He never did, and he comfortably made 160 for his whole career, most of it under different weigh in rules.

Maybe early in Roy's career, there was no size difference, but Roy's body grew.

 

Incorrect. Jones started at 154 and the only reason he keep moving up in weight is because he looked for big fights. He could have stayed at 160 without any problem, just like Hopkins was able to stay at that weight until he has to move out, not because of weight issue, but because he wanted bigger fights (he ran out of options when he lost to Taylor).

Hagler is a big MW, frame-wise. He maybe is only 5' 9½", but that is not exactly a midget by any standards either. Just look at how he compares to Hearns side to side:

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The sizes of their heads/neck, the width of their chests, etc. And Hearns is no small MW himself.

 

Jones did not DOMINATE Hopkins. He won, but not like he won against Toney, not by any means.

 

His body grew because he made it grow by bulking up, which I doubt if Hagler was incapable of if he intended to move up in weight.

Try re-watching Jones-Toney and see that at least they are both of the same size (or if anything, Jones was bigger build-wise). Look at them now, Toney is at least 250 lbs and Jones will soon fight at 170. Their bodies can grow or shrink depending on how they let them.

Toney (who made some success at HW) is just as tall as Hagler and I bet had they stood side to side when they were at 160, that Hagler would look much bigger in body frame.

 

At 160, it's a very close call. Roy was not yet, IMO, at his full peak that he reached at 168, where I'd call for him to decision Hagler for sure. At 160 though, he still had most of his physical abillities, just maybe not the experience and mental abilities, as well as strength, that he gained later.

Based on styles, Roy has the speed and movement to perhaps win a decision over Hagler, but then again comes the experience factor. Who knows how that could affect him, but if we're talking the best Roy at 160, he was as spectacular as ever, and didn't really seem any less confident than he was at higher weights.

So I'm just gonna analyze the styles here, if someone else has a different view, that's fine. Roy has the hand and footspeed, as well as the unorthodox style to outbox Hagler, but Hagler I believe at some point during the fight realizes this and switches it up. At this point of the fight Roy has to rely on sticking and moving, and probably losing rounds, maybe taking some punishment. In other words, I expect Roy to outbox Hagler for the early rounds, but for Hagler to come on like a bull late, making it reminiscent of Hagler's fight with Leonard, depending on how you scored that one.

Over 12, I'll take Jones by close decision. No problem with anyone taking Hagler though.

 

I am well aware Jones started at 154, but he had precious few fights there and was a teenager. I am from Pensacola, you can tell me very little about Jones that I don't know.

Jones didn't move up because he was ONLY looking for bigger fights. I am sure Jones could have stayed at 160, but he was also a big MW, bigger than Hagler for sure. Hopkins dropped to MW because it gave him an advantage, and that's where the big fights were. But he was a large MW, just like Taylor and Pavlik are now. You are speculating at Hagler's size and ability to move up in weight, where as there is concrete proof that Jones moved up as did Hopkins and it's documented in their own statements that they were big MW's.

Hagler next to Hearns? Hearns was a tall but small MW. He started at WW because he had this frame. Hearns is a natural 154lb fighter, which is why his success rate dropped at MW and higher.

 

What you don't seem to know about Toney is that he was naturally larger than that to begin with, and by his own admission could have started at LHW or CW. Jones was more muscular, but not bigger than Toney.

 

True, I hate it when people don't have a clue about the fighters they're speaking about.

 

That's not true. Obviously you have only seen a few fights of Jones, mainly his fights when his career was on a decline. Johnson did what he did to Jones because Jones was pretty finished at that point. He was pressured by many fighters; Clinton Woods, Vinny Paz, Bryant Brannon, and Mergui Sosa, mind you these are not Hagler, but to say he wasn't pressured is pretty unrealistic - some of those guys pressured him badly, they just got raped (hagler would be different, and Roy would have to make adjustments). I am not sure where people get this idea that Roy can't handle pressure or that he was not pressured in his prime. That's an illusion and it just isn't true. Most don't understand how good he was. Johnson fought a aged wieght drained jones, who had no desire, was KO'd in his last fight, and loss much of his ability at that point, in regards his legs and etc.

 

No, Jones was not finished when Johnson KOed him. He may not be at his peak but he was no way finished.

I am amazed at how people try to resort to all kinds of excuses in order to salvage Jones' invincibility image.

Jones was perceived to be at peak of his career when he beat Ruiz on Mar 2003. He was superman at that time. 8 months later, many dismissed Tarver's chances. When Tarver made it a close fight, it was due to the 25 lbs weight reduction. When Tarver KOed him in the rematch 6 months later, it was a lucky punch.

At this point in time, every was still convinced Jones, at only 35, will still find a way to regain his P4P standing, all he needs to do is to have a tuen up fight before fighting Tarver for the 3rd time. So he fought Johnson. Johnson was a huge underdog, Jones shown no sign of being SHOT in the entire fight until he got KOed. Even when Johnson trapped him on the ropes, Jones would play a semi rope a dope and retaliate with crisp body shots. HBO commentators even thought Johnson was wasting energy and that the exchanges on the ropes were working for Jones' advantage.

Jones got caught with a looping right hand, he went down, his head bounced hard on the canvass, he got KOed cold. In my view, Jones underestimated Johnson and was caught by a good punch. The way his head hit the mat didn't help him either. He lost because of those cirucumstances, not because he was FINISHED or anything like that.

 

Johnson learned it from Hopkins. And a near prime Jones showed exactly what would happen if you tried that. Griffin tried it as well.