Roy Jones Jr vs Michael Nunn At MW

His walking around weight was 190lbs. His fight night weight was between 180(Harmon) to 182(Hall). Minus clothes puts him in the 178-176 region.

-He weighed 193 plus clothes for the official weigh in
-Mackie Shilstone who prepared him for the fight said he was 192.
-Jones during the build up for the Calzaghe fight said he was really 193

http://www.secondsout.com/columns/thomas-hauser/jones-ruiz-and-the-roy-jones-legacy1

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2008/oct/26/boxing-roy-jones-jnr


His fight night weight for the Tarver I fight was 185, but he would of come in higher if he had rehydrated properly. He cut around 8 lbs or so, thats assuming he really kept the weight on from the Ruiz fight. 6 months ia a long time

 

its perhaps the nature of the weight gain and thus corresponding loss. if jones had used steroids to accumulate the extra weight in muscle mass, then steroid withdrawal and subsequent effort to lose some weight results in incongruent muscle loss that involves all areas of the body, and not just where the muscle mass was gained. inherently, your physique changes when losing weight after a steroid gain.

PS wheres the money you owe me.

 

I wasn't talking about purely muscle.

I was talking about the overall weight loss, to the weigh in.


In the documentary - 'The Sweet Science' Roy and his team claim that the scales were out at the official weigh in.

The official weigh in weight, was 193 pounds.

He then got weighed in a hotel, and it registered at 201 pounds, including his clothes.

The documentary is on YouTube, and that exact part, is from part 4, if you're interested.

Then later on in the documentary, (still part 4) he gets weighed on fight night, in his dressing room for HBO.

It registers 199 pounds, with clothes, and that weight is what Thomas Hauser reported, for his article in Seconds Out.

Hauser reported that it registered 199, and if you subtracted three pounds for his clothes, his weight was 196 pounds.

So he weighed 196 pounds, with 8% body fat.


Now according to Alton Merkerson, Roy kept his HW physique in the hope of landing a big money HW fight.

Now there are links available online, where he considered fighting Corrie Sanders, before declining and asking for more money.

Also, I've recently read excerpts from Jim Thomas's book, who was Evander Holyfield's attorney. It was published in 2005. In the book, it states that they were close to making a fight with Roy, until Evander backed out late in June, 2003, because he was upset with Don King.

So that's enough proof for me, that Roy was still big in the summer of 2003.

The Tarver fight was signed in September.


Now I can't tell you EXACTLY what Roy weighed when he went into camp for Tarver, and I don't know what his EXACT body fat percentage was.

I don't have that information to hand. However, I've no reason to doubt Alton Merkerson, along with the other information that I've read up on.

So I would guess that he was still high up in the 190's, with a low body fat percentage.

He then obviously had to hit 175 for the weigh in.

So he had to have lost an estimated 20 pounds overall.

Again, I've never said he lost 20 pounds of muscle.

But you can see a big difference in his physiques, from the Ruiz and Tarver fights.


Now frankenfrank, claims that he didn't lose ANY muscle at all.

Which is of course, complete nonsense.

 

We've discussed this previously.


1. Mackie said that Roy CAME to him at 192.

He didn't weigh 192 for the actual fight.

Mackie built him up in camp.

It's on the documentary that is on YouTube.


2. A quote from Roy, over five and half years after the fight, doesn't mean much to me. He obviously just quoted the official weight. But again, if you watch the documentary, he gets weighed three times in total. It follows his camp in detail.


3. In a previous debate, you have put forward this Thomas Hauser article from above, to prove to a poster that Roy weighed 199 pounds, and 196 if you were to minus three pounds for his clothes. All you've done here, is highlighted the part where Hauser mentions the 193 from the official weigh in. But again, in this same article, further down the page, Hauser states that he weighed 196 on HBO's scales, just prior to the fight. You can't just pick out the bits that suit your argument. If you're going to post up the article as evidence, you have to read it in it's entirety.

 

This is one of the few fights that has completely stumped me. I don't know what would happen. I could see Jones winning by KO, or I could see Nunn winning a UD. I can't call it...

 

Roy did not beat him at 35, and Tarver was 7 weeks older, more weight drained, passed cocaine abuse, lengthy amateur career and his pro career to that point was tougher than Jones' due to fighting a harder list of opponents. _____ Just imagine what a prime Tarver would have done. They fought 3 times as pros and it ended in 2(1):0:1 for Tarver. And all of your excuses for Jones apply for Tarver more than they do for Jones, so there you have it.

 

Seven weeks?

Ha!

How many more times?

Roy turned pro at 20 and had 50 fights.

Tarver turned pro at 28/29 and had 22 fights.

You don't need to be Columbo to work it out.

If Roy could beat him at ALMOST 35, whilst exhausted, then he damn sure could have beaten him when he was younger.

There's nothing else to say.

 

This board is flooded with prove positive of your lies, so it would take a lot more proof than you just SAYING you met Joe Calzaghe face to face and called him a coward before I paid you a red cent.

 

So by Jones's and your own reckoning this is a guy who though he jogs, cycles, and plays a lot of basketball walks around at 190. We are NOT talking a fat bloated Duran, or Hatton between fights, rather a guy who prides himself in staying " in shape "

So again you have constantly referred to Jones having to lose 24 - 25 lbs of body weight ( on other threads, and not just this one ) to fight Tarver, whereas in actual fact he had to lose approx 8 lbs more than he ordinarily would. With respect you can make all the excuses you like on behalf of your favourite fighter, but it is nothing to do with anyone else if he signed a contract to fight at 175 in 6 - 8 weeks time knowing he had the extra few pounds to lose.

 

You quoted and ignored what you quoted. And it is not the first time you ignore the part of my reply which dealt with Tarver's seemingly shorter pro career leading to their fight as a harder, more damaging career than Roy had up to that point, and it is not the only part of my reply. ______________ So I repeated it just to make it harder on you misleading naive readers.

 

We're going around in circles.


Roy's camp say he kept his physique until the summer.

So if he was a solid 196 at the start of camp, he had to lose around 20 pounds for the weigh in.

I don't remember saying he'd lost 25.

I said he'd lost 20 pounds plus, of overall weight.


I agree that in terms of actual weight, he probably didn't lose much more than normal. But there's a huge difference between losing fat and muscle.

Roy could have walked into camp at somewhere around 190 for an average fight at LHW. But you could bet your life that it wouldn't have been 190 with only 6% body fat.

It's easy to say 'all he lost was an extra 8 pounds' but that was a significant amount of weight at that stage of his career, under those circumstances.


I also agree that Roy had to take responsibility for his own actions. Nobody made him fight Tarver. IMHO, he should never have gone back to LHW so soon. But hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

You're saying that half of Roy's pro fights are irrelevant, whilst telling us that Tarver's three round amateur fights against kids, are relevant.


So what's the point in continuing the debate?

 

Tarver had many more fights against younger fighters of relatively higher quality (than almost every one of Jones' professional opponents) in his amateur career.
___ ____ ____ ___ _ _ _
That is true and you disagree with it.
_ _ _ _
But that was not my last claim which you pretend to misinterpret.
My claim was that Tarver's professional career up to their fight was a tougher and more damaging than Jones' professional career up to their fight.

_ _ _ _

Is there anyone else here whom did not comprehend it or whom thinks Loudon does not pretend to not comprehend it?

 

1. I don't care how many amateur fights Tarver had.

The point is, you're dismissing 25 of Roy's pro fights, whilst telling us how significant Tarver's three round amateur fights were.


2. How the hell did Tarver have a tougher career before they met, when Roy had fought twice as many fights, across 5 divisions?


You're an embarrassment.

 

1. Which ones of Roy's fights should I not dismiss? and will I get an answer for this?

2. Roy gets the edge in fighting a better version of Reggie Johnson (according to what I know at this moment which is none regarding Johnson's condition upon fighting each one of them)
Roy also fought a younger version of Griffin, but was also young enough himself when he did, and both Jones and Tarver are older than Griffin anyway, BUT, Jones cheated his way to a rightful DQ loss in his 1st fight against Griffin, and got his way scammed in his favor in the second.
As far as I know, there were no controversies regarding Tarver's win over Griffin.
Vs Harding, seemingly Harding got less than 3 months rest after his 1st fight against Tarver leading to his fight against Jones, so Tarver fought the better version of him too, and later stopped him, but I once read that Harding was short after surgery leading to his rematch against Tarver.
Tarver also stopped (and was the only man to do so as a pro) a younger, former Olympian himself in Mohammed Benguesmia, whom also happened to KO O'neil Bell.
Roy would have never signed to fight such an opponent for the amount of cash Tarver got for this fight and I would love to be proven wrong.
It is possible that those familiar with the relevant time at 175 could mention another 1 or 2 noteworthy wins for Tarver up to his 1st fight against Jones.

And it also should bring the reader back to wonder about your reply to part no. 1, since it is a comparison after all.