Roy Jones Jr. Vs The Black Uhlan of The Rhine

The Long Count · Jul 5, 2014

PowerPuncher said: ↑

So much forum myth that's been perpetuated people begin to accept it rather than searching for the truth of the situation

'Roy fouled out against Griffin', really, nothing to do with him turning up about to KO his opponent and accidently hitting him fairly lightly when he was going down?
Yes really... He did foul against Griffin. "Accidently reeks of fan boyism" he was rightfully disqualified he lost his cool in a frustrating fight. Watch again nothing accidental about that second punch.

Saying his LHW wins were dubious shows ignorance as he was fighting the highest ranked LHWs of the time bar 1 or 2 who were with other promoters and hard to make fights with. Schmelling isn't more skilled than some of the LHWs Jones was beating.

to say they were not dubious shows more ignorance. Again let's list his Light heavy roll call Eric Harding, Richard Frazier,Richard hall, Derrick Harmon, glen Kelly, david telesco, Julio Gonzalez.

The only criticism Jones detractors can make of his performances is of when he was shot after the age of 35, it's intellectual dishonesty.

I am not a jones detractor I am a jones realist. Just because I find it logical to pick Schmeling a great heavyweight over a man who fought one hand picked opponent at heavy and who has a rather sparse record at light heavy doesn't make me a detractor. Only a Roy jones apologist fan boy would think so.

'Timing can offset speed' - yes but Jones has better timing than Schmelling though

Debatable and certaintly not at heavyweight. Again if you think one fight against a slow Ruiz is enough of a sample you're deluding yourself.

'Styles make fights' yes and as a counterpuncher with a great right hand Toney is the most similar opponent to Schmelling, so not a great styles match up at all.

Different type of counter punchers and more importantly at 168. Toney was weight drained because he never had any discipline and yes while a great win for Jones again 168 he isn't going to dance like that at 193 and he won't be fighting a weight drained 168 pound man. He fights a well conditioned 200 pounder. The right hand would land at some point.

Another myth ' he missed a ton of top level guys WHO WANTED to fight him in other divisions' - really who wanted to fight him who didn't want a king's ransom to make the fight? Jones tried to fight King's fighters like Benn but King demanded Jones sign his soul away to make it happen and he offered Dariusz a fight on US soil. He offered Rochiagani a fight but Rochiagani was busy suing the WBC and fighting Jones would have reduced any settlement.
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Excuses. Somehow I rember Oscar DevLa Hoya moving up and down divisions facing the best available. When a fighter wants to prove he is great and is the attraction the fights get made.

And if we want to talk about Jones beating all these great p4p guys at middle and super middle. Little reminder Schmeling beat a better all time p4p fighter than jones ever fought and he beat him at heavyweight.
Facts are the facts- in conclusion Jones light heavy resume is not great, and his resume at heavy is a total of one fight against a hand picked opponent. Spin it any way you want but Schmeling has a better resume at heavy than Roy has at light heavy and if you are unbiased there is no reason Schmeling should not be heavily favored.

janitor · Jul 5, 2014

PowerPuncher said: ↑

No because he still beat the best 2 fighters of his era
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I will give you one, in James Toney.

and more champions and contenders than anyone else. While he achieved so much yet it gets ignored down to how easy it looked. If his defence wasn't so good and he went life and death with certain opponents the wins would be remembered as greater but because it seemed so easy they are negated.

Having said that it could have been better. Roy wouldn't sell himself down the river by signing with King and Arum. If he had he'd have got other big fights that he missed.

Let me turn it around and ask who he was supposed to fight and when?

Benn? - Jones was happy to face Benn on a 1 fight basis, King demanded a long term option on Jones fights. Benn in turn lost to Malinga and got a gift against Malinga who Jones treated a child. Benn was talking about expecting 25m for the fight.

Collins - wanted 6m for the fight. He lost to Reggie Johnson and McCallum who Jones fought instead. HBO were pushing for the latter 2 fights instead of Collins too and when Jones invited Collins to be ringside HBO ignored Collins.

Eubank? - rejected Jones before Jones was champion and as a unification. Eubank only wanted to fight Jones after he lost and was supposed to turn the fight down in '98. Eubank said Thompson was an easier option than Darius or Jones.

Darius - should have happened but neither wanted to travel the Atlantic to make it happen. He wasn't really that good either, Gonzalez who Jones beat easily dethroned Dariusz and he went life and death against Hall.

McClellan/Nunn/Jackson/Liles - All Don King fighters and Don wanted Roy to sign away a percentage of his future purses to sign with him.

Hopkins was with Don King too when Roy offered him 40 percent of the purse too. Hopkins would have had to split a large part of that purse with King because of his contract, which is part of the reason he turned down both Jones and Calzaghe.

The problem with all these fights is they either wanted a career high payday many times more than they'd ever owned and/or King demanded Roy sign a contract that would take much of his future earnings. He was happy to rematch Hopkins or fight Benn on his own terms but the other camp walked away.

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You understand the politics behind the key fights better than I do, but I still have to make a couple of observations.

Michalczewski is a big big omission. Whether you think he was good or not, he was the guy you needed to beat to establish supremacy at 175 lbs.

Beyond that, he does seem to have missed out on a lot of key opponents. Whatever the reasons for this, the fights didnt happen.

Incredibly, he never established lineage in any weight class. How the f*** did that happen?

I have to think that had he wanted to fight the best fighters of his era, he would have had more success making those fights. Fighters who want to, usually find a way.

The one weight class where he unequivocally avoided the best contenders is heavyweight, and this is where he has to meet Schmeling.
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Roy Jones Jr. Vs The Black Uhlan of The Rhine

The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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Roy Jones Jr. Vs The Black Uhlan of The Rhine

The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

janitor VIP Member Full Member