Roy Jones Jr winning a HW title.

Well, fat Galento did floor Louis.

I didn't say that he was. I only said that Jackson depended on a longer reach to hit and not get hit. That advantage was missing in his fight with Willard. Instead he had to close the distance since jab was being met with jab just as Vlad had to do when he came up against Josh and Fury. Same result! Even against smaller fighters his style was the same as Vlad, throw a few punches and hold on the inside. Try watching one of his fights and see how long you can endure the monotony.

 

So Holyfield wasn't outpointed in the first and on the verge of blacking out in the second?

Ruiz won all his fights by holding?

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That would have been truly phenomenal!

Unfortunately, his his knockout percentage indicates that you are suffering from a selective blindness fantasy.

Strange that you take umbrage since Jack Johnson clinched approx. 200 times per round and Vitaly illegally clinched his way to all those bogus wins. Also, Mohammed Ali illegally held behind the head.

So I really SEE NO logical REASON for your exceptional outrage simply because Ruiz connects and moves in with his shoulder to lure the opponent into a mutual clinch in order to prevent a COUNTERPUNCH. Furthermore Ruiz's opponents voluntarily fell into that mutual clinched neutralized position because they were stunned and welcomed that clinch to recover. So they were cooperating. In fact, Foreman commended Ruiz for the way that he was outsmarting Holyfield even though Holy was illegally head-butting and using elbows all night long.
Had that tactic been illegal Foreman would have pointed it out as illegal.

So that was his style and Nady made sure that he could not use it. That is why IMHO Jones won NOTHING.

 

the win could not be seen as much. To get a title from a weak champ like Ruiz,

 

Well he doesn't have that many fights on film and those that are are not particularly long films to watch so it really isn't as bad as you make out imo.

Still I don't understand what double standards I've portrayed?

 

Why is it acceptable for Ali to clutch behind the head, Jackson to clinch after almost every punch and Vlad to wrestle through most of the rounds while Ruiz is severely and constantly criticized for occasionally moving in with his shoulder after landing in order to neutralize a counter?

 

When did I defend Ali clinching behind the head?

When did I defend Jackson?

When did I defend Vlad wrestling?

When did I severely and constantly criticise Ruiz?

All I actually did was say that I credit Jones with beating a top 5 HW, I don't credit him with being the HW champ. I've no idea how you can derive any of the first 3 paragraphs from the 4th.

 

I was speaking in general and not specifically about your post. Sorry if I gave that impression.

About your opinion that Ruiz was not a legitimate HW champion: Please note that Ruiz legitimately won that HW WBA belt by beating Holyfield twice. Top HWS such as Johnson, who had knocked a top ranked Russian Oleg Maskaev clear out of the ring, Rahman who had KO'd Lewis, and Oquenedo a skilled ring tactician and Galota who had out boxed Riddick Bow TWICE all failed to take it from him. In view of this your opinion that Ruiz didn't deserve to be holder of that belt comes across as rather peevish.

BTW
The truth is that the announcers felt that Rahman would knock Ruiz out as he had done to Lewis and that Johnson would knock Ruiz out as he had done to Maskaev. However, to their chagrin it was Jonson who got floored twice and Rahman was outpointed and came very close to being KOD'. Gallota was out boxed and got outpointed. Oquendo who was boasting that he would beat Ruiz got KOD.

 

Ruiz had no need to be fighting Valuev in Germany again to regain his title had he not been robbed the first time. In order to win in Germany you have to throw caution to the wind cuz you sure as hell ain't gonna get a decision against the hometown boy or their favorite..

Can you provide the source where Ruiz admits losing that second fight?

BTW
You refer to Valuev as Walujew. Is Valuev Jewish?

This article refers to him as a Christian:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Valuev

In either case how is that relevant t6o the subject?

 

Sorry about the question but everyone else calls him Valuev. If indeed you find the question annoying why not simply use his regular name and avoid provoking confusion?

Judges did what? LOL! Just because the judges decide doesn't make a fight fair or justifiably evaluated.
I did notice referee interference to protect during the second match. Ref Jumping in when Valuev was stumbling from punches along the ropes and preventing Ruiz from continuing the attack and blatantly interfering when he thought Valuev was about to get hit due to Valuev's sloppy defensive posture after a break.

No, everyone who watched these fights didn't have Valuev comfortably ahead as can be easly observed by reading the youtube viewer commentaries and as this following writer acknowledges concerning their first encounter.

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Viewer Opinions:

Rob Velzeboeryears ago

Another robbery by Valuev, awful boxing.


Wario's Gold Coinyears ago

This was a close fight as both fighters had there small moments of light in this fight, but overal a close fought one. Still the fight ended with a MD victory for Nikolay Valuev (116-114, 116-113, 114-114), I had the fight scored 116-114 for John Ruiz as the winner. Any one agree?


Eric Bernardoyears ago

ruiz got robbed

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Viewer Commentary:


cohenhaywood1011 months ago
Surely Ruiz won this fight?, he was the one actually trying to win it.
1

Sapper Gardener1 year ago
OK,I saw Don King in the ring. Explains it all.


cohenhaywood1011 months ago
How very true.


James G3 years ago
haha...valuevs own crowd boo'd him. JOHN RUIZ WON THIS..he is a 3 time wba champion in my book
1

BTW
Anyone can claim that a fighter admitted losing. Where is your evidence?

 

Yes but whilst that was going on, Lewis was the champ and Ruiz never beat him so therefore couldn't be champ.

 

Lewis refused to accept the Ruiz mandatory and chose to vacate the title. That's why the Evander Vs Ruiz match took place. In fact, Ruiz's manager said that Ruiz got the better of Lewis during sparring and that he had his number and that's why Lewis refused the mandatory.

 

Plus Lewis defended against Tua who beat Ruiz in under a minute.

 

Really? Well, let's apply your logic and see how it holds up. Rahmam KNOCKED Lewis out cold while Ruiz easily beat Rahman and had Rahman in serious trouble and unlike Lewis, Rahman didn't knock him out cold.. Now what?

Should Michael Moorer's title that he won from Evander Holyfield be considered bogus because Tua knocked Moorer out cold in 30 seconds of the first round?

That kind of reasoning is nonsensical.

BTW

That's nothing unusual for people that Tua hits on the jaw to lose consciousness..

KOD Michael Moorer in 30 seconds of the first round.

KOD Obed Sullivan in 30 seconds of first round

KOD Eric Curry in 43 seconds of first round

KOD Cecil Coffee in 29 Seconds of the first round

KOD Bruce Bellocchi 3 minutes of first round

KOD Ron Humes 30 seconds first round

KOD Lorenzo Poole first round

TKOD Alfredo Nevarez first round

Willie Washington KOD first round

Larry Davis KOD 2 minutes eighteen seconds first round
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Tua

Your claim that whatever all these boxers managed to accomplish after getting KOD or before getting KOD must be unceremoniously devalued because of it is ludicrous.


BTW
As I previously said, Lewis vacated the title in order not to fight the mandatory against Ruiz.
That is a fact as opposed to your personal biased opinions.

 

Which logic of mine are you applying?

Moorer beating Holy isn't bogus.

I didn't claim anything must be unceremoniously devalued.

I haven't stated any opinions. The fact I stated was Lewis defended against Tua instead of Ruiz. He also previously defended against Grant instead of Ruiz.

Your posts never seem to related to those which you quote.

I suggest next time you actually read a post before pressing the quote button.

Thanks for understanding.

 

Your post was read carefully and responded to accordingly.

What logic? The logic that claims Lewis is a superior boxer because he wasn't knocked out by Tua. I gave you the counterexample of the Rahman knocking out Lewis while Ruiz wasn't.

Saying that a HW belt holder doesn't deserve the belt is not devaluing?

BTW
I never said that Moorer beating Holy was Bogus or that you claimed it to be bogus. Just applying your faulty logic to show how it is way off base. If Ruiz is flawed by getting knocked out by Tua then what about Moorer getting knocked out in thirty seconds of the first round by Tua? He didn't deserve the belt either? Your reasoning smacks of bias.

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Strange how the commentator giggles with satisfcation when the Ruiz knockout is mentioned but is dead serious while the Moorer knockout is being discussed.