Roy Jones, Jr

I somewhat agree with you.. Yes as far as atg ranking and resumes i rank both pac and Whittaker over jones.. But in hth pfp mathcups ill take Jones at mw or Sm.... Reason why is i think hth jones beats anyone at those weights... Cant say the same about Pac, i think hed have trouble with big elite Welters of the past Hearns,Leonard,prime ODLH and maybe even primeMosley,, Even a tall boxer/puncher like Forrest might get him and the DUran of Montreal too in fact theres a couple more i might pick over him Maybe prime Curry? and possibly prime Tito and Quartey........ WHere as id pick Jones over Monzon,Hagler,Robinson etc in hth matchups.. At lw probably only Duran beats sweet Pea(or maybe Lw version Of DUran) but at welter i could think of a few that get him there.... BUt i hear u he didnt have the best comp or didnt fight them so that hurts his resume in all time great rankings.

 

But don´t you have to factor in how proven they are when looking at h2h? I can´t pick someone like Jones over Monzon when he never proved that he can really dig deep if he has too. Because he certainly would have to do so against Monzon. We don´t know if he can and there are indications that he can´t (Griffin I, Tarver II) and he would have to dig deeper against the best mws for sure. I just can´t pick a fighter as unproven, in this regard, as Jones over fighters like Monzon, Tiger, Hagler, hell, even Walker. Know what I mean? Too many question marks. I think there is a reason Jones and his camp avoided risky fights and took the safe route - and it´s not just about money. That´s speculation of course but that´s h2h anyway.

 

One key point to focus on here is Jones picked his ref in the Ruiz fight. Breaks were called quickly, Ruiz was never a big puncher or fast handed boxer. Ruiz won many of his his fights by mauling, fouling, and bad judging. When his tactics were taken away, he had little to fall back on.

 

I take it you haven't seen much Tarver or bothered to look at the videos I posted

All blatantly false, which you'd know if you'd bothered to watch Jones-Tarver 1

Pacquaio hasn't fought anyone as good as Toney or Hopkins, Cotto was probably on par with a past prime Hill

 

Yes, PP, everybody knows by now you sleep in Roy-Jones-Jr bedclothes, wear Roy-Jones-Jr undies and have posters of him hanging over your bed. :thumbsup

 

Ahhh no comeback for the fact you've never watched Jones-Tarver 1. Everyone knows Bodhi talks about boxing but doesn't watch it :thumbsup ANyway where can I get these RJJ undies?

 

It´s pointless argueing Jones Jr. with you. Argueing with a wall is more likely to result in something that makes sense.

 

Keep saying that to cover up the fact you've never seen Jones-Tarver 1, there is no element of bias in this, if you'd watched the fight you'd never make this statement:

Did Jones have to dig deep in Tarver 1? Watch the fight and let me know :good

 

Just because he was in a fight for once doesn´t mean he had to dig deep. No he didn´t have to. He didn´t outclass him like he was used to do and was in a fight but that´s quite something different to what Hagler had to do against Hearns for example.

But anyway, I won´t argue. It´s pointless.

 

good thread and pretty fair answers.

to the OP:

1)i'm not 32 but he's likely the most talented i've seen in my lifetime which does include whitaker, hager and chavez (course i wasn't watching much boxing back then)

2)he's the most physically/athletically gifted fighter i've ever seen. there may be strong arguments for other fighters but i've yet to hear them

3)he was in the same "unbeatable" bracket i feel as

Chavez in the mid 80s
Whitaker in the late 80s/early 90s
Lopez in the mid 90s (good shout out mcgrain)
Mayweather mid 2000s

He was that good and in terms of how good he looked, he's likely a step above all but whitaker in the aura of dominance

I think Jones is now getting a fair shake on both forums and his career is being put into perspective. As with all fighters, he's underrated by some and overrated by others; at this point, the former do not seem to dominate as they did a few years ago nor do the latter dominate as they did from 97-03.

I'll say this: he had virtually no conventional boxing technique to speak of but as a fighter, he had very few visible exploitable flaws in his prime. In fact, from 95-03 the only real knock against him was his competition. Like sweet pea, he didn't just win fights, he hardly lost rounds.

I think a very reasonable argument for top 20 can be made and unreasonable as it is, i may well have him in my top 10 when the dust settles

 

One of the most naturally gifted boxers ever. But remember, talent isn't all in boxing, technique is just as important, and toughness matters too. Beatable because he had some technical flaws, a so so chin, and didn't face any great LHWs. And because no one is unbeatable in a sport like boxing, where one punch can change a fight.

Do we really see RJJ going 5-0 against the likes of Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Michael Spinks, Gene Tunney, Bob Foster etc? These are guys who not only owned LHWs but convincingly beat many excellent heavyweights too. They were tough and skilled ATG champions who were just leagues above anyone RJJ ever fought (yes, leagues above Hopkins and Toney too, not to mention bigger and much harder hitting).

Sorry but no way RJJ goes 5-0 against those guys.

 

No - he won a belt, not the real title. Tunney, Charles and Spinks won the *genuine* heavyweight title - and put in defences too. Foster and Moore challenged for the real title too but couldn't handle the opposition. Jones didn't fight for the heavyweight title at all.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGsAWhOntCM[/ame]


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zKtj1o41nQ[/ame]


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G5v_PNsl4Q[/ame]



[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmiRQAhgiDo&feature=related[/ame]


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD99VbFzqAg&feature=related[/ame]

 

Stop pretending you've seen Jones-Tarver 1 :yep

 

Actually Hopkins hadnt reached his peak,he was already very good but not the great fighter he turned out to be when he fought Jones....Toney was not at his best.......... I rate Marquez,Morales, Barrera over even an inshape Toney and better than the hopkins that Jones beat.......Although Morales and Barrera were on the slide..... marquez was still peak and better than any of Jones wins.(although contreversial)