Roy Jones v. 1919 Jess Willard

True rose coloured glasses.

Had he mentioned Wills instead of Dempsey, he'd have a point.

Also Dempsey has the losing record against Meehan...

 

I can see that picking smaller fighters over superheavyweights is new to some people here, because they are more accustomed to the size dynamic working in their favour.

The first think you start with is historical precedence, to justify that your pick is reasonable.

There are cases of smaller heavyweights defeating superheavyweights, at this level of the game, but none of somebody like Jones doing it.

All of the examples who have done it were at the very least natural 185 pounders, and they generally had a critical equalizer in terms of power and finishing ability.

There is no precedence for a guy like Jones beating a guy like Willard, at a level where a title was going to change hands.

 

roy was heavier vs ruiz than dempsey was against willard.

steroid aided weight - yeah, can't defend that but being on the gas isn't a disadvantage.

rjj doesn't have dempsey power, but jones' speed advantage is less a gap and more a huge chasm.

there are very few examples of a guy like roy, so drawing exact historical comparisons we are limited to dempsey willard and jones ruiz, the little guy won both. Not because size doesn't matter but because they were superior to their respective opponents. I pick that ruiz over that willard too.

 

Jones might have weighted 193lbs vs. Ruiz, but he still came up to that weight from middleweight.

That is a serious problem where precedence is concerned.

Speed alone generally doesn’t overcome those sort of physical advantages.

The fighters who did it were all wrecking machines, and had never been much below 180lbs at world level.

 

Everything is unprecedented the first time that it happens, but it is hard to justify calling such events beforehand.

 

Not with any sort of title on the line.

Many, where these sorts of size disparities are concerned.

 

so? langford came from mw.

to a certain extent. there is very little precedent for this matchup full stop. not a serious problem imo but i kinda agree and certainly anyone arguing this to the death has lost perspective.

it doesn't, but we both know jones wasn't just speed alone.

That's true, but i'm not picking against prime willard and this isn't a finish fight, jones pts is by far the most likely outcome imo.

beyond saying that, i see your argument i just don't agree, and i think vice versa is true also.

edit- thinking more it occurs to me that if this is the same rules/ref as dempsey willard then the first kd is basically a ko win. this does increase willards chances because he can just push jones over a bunch till the ref messes up and counts, then start landing punches.

 

Even Langford never beat anybody the size of Willard, at this level of the game.

Big Bill Tate was probably the closest that he came, and while he was better than given credit for, it is hard to see him as more than a contender.

 

I think that it was a more relevant consideration back then, when fighters often took fights on short notice, could afford to lose one more, and were more often subject to absurd decisions.

 

Willard was overwhelmed and beat down by a wide swinging 178 pounder. He looked the bumbling galoot he was for that fight. Aside from being ungodly tough (or maybe Dempsey's power wasn't quite superhuman), he showed nothing.

I can see Jones overwhelming with speed of attack but Jones rarely go wreck less like Jack so I am conceding that a UD over 12 is a distinct possibility.