Roy Jones v. 1919 Jess Willard

Isn't that what we routinely assume with contemporary fighters?

We take the fighter to be more formidable when they were operating at world level, than when they were learning their trade outside the top ten, even though this might not necessarily be the case.

It might not be true, but we have to assume that it is for practically purposes.

Here I have to strongly disagree.

Ruiz was undoubtedly world class when jones beat him, but he had a limited reach advantage over Jones, and he did not fight at range.

This played to Jones's strengths.

Willard was 6' 6'' and had the longest reach of any lineal heavyweight champion in history, and he fought at range.

Not to mention that he hit like a truck.

Bad news for Jones, and he would know it.

 

It is not that he did anything better per se, it is that he was much more experienced at world level, and much more battle hardened.

This ultimately counts for a lot.

 

Despite my rebuttal, you have raised some interesting points.

Your best argument is probably the Tom McMahon fight.

McMahon was a 185 pounder, and Willard came in as a late replacement for Bat Levinsky.

Willard refused to disclose his weight, and was outpointed.

While this fight does not reflect Willard at his best, it is close enough to be factored into the argument.

 

In real life, Jess Willard wasn't a 1inch figure on your computer screen. His punches were real. His size was real. He killed someone. For real.

Jones would be in for a gladiator fight. He's not ready for those waters at heavyweight.

Willard got absolutely wrecked by Dempsey, and yet was throwing punches until the end of the fight. And I'm talking hard punches that I can't see someone like Jones taking. He whipped Dempseys head upwards a few times with some hard uppercuts. If he can catch Dempsey, he can catch HW Jones.

 

Just watch the Jones Ruiz fight, and tell me with a straight face that Jones would be giant Willard.

Notice how he has enough speed to beat Ruiz to the punch.
But does he have enough speed to beat Willard to the punch, and then get out of range? Over and over again?
With his hands low?

Come on guys. Half way through round 1, Jones is standing still, trading jabs with Ruiz.
https://streamable.com/ckac

He's not KOing Jess with those punches. And he's not going to win a jab war.
Jess also has a way better chin than Jones.

I give Jones a 15% chance to win, by putting on a magical performance. Wouldn't put it past a legend like him, but it's probably a bridge too far.

 

Dempsey couldn't even paste midget Arreola Meehan.

smh tbh fam

 

Ruiz >> Willard

And Willard lost to men similar in size to Jones.

 

That dude also beat Sam Langford.

Also, Dempsey didn't get the luxury of padded matchmaking until after he was champ.

 

Ruiz wasn't exactly greased lightning, let's be fair.

TBH, I actually doubt that he'd fare well against Willard himself. His huggy bear tactics would backfire against a guy as big and strong as Willard.

 

I can see no grounds for saying this.

Willard was obviously more successful, and even if you go on other factors, Ruiz was not exactly a paragon of technical brilliance.

I don't think that he did to be honest.

McMahon, Smith, and Rodel were all about the same size as Jack Dempsey.

None of these guys had any sort of world level career at middleweight.

McCarthy and Firpo were both big guys.

 

McMahon, Smith, and Rodel didn't have a 24 hour weigh in to be able to fight at middleweight. And Roy struggled making 160 already early in his career even with the 24 hours.
Besides the bulk of his career was at 175 with a 24 hour weigh in.

No grounds for saying Ruiz was better?

Ruiz beat Holyfield twice (first fight was a robbery), and thought Holyfield deserved the third by a round.
Kirk Johnson, Rahman and Oquendo are good names too on his resume.

You can dispute the Golota win.

He likely should have had the nod against Valuev, who was ok sort of.

And had a good showing against a prime Chagaev losing a very close bout.

 

I disagree.

I think that you look at the full range of weights that somebody fought at, when assessing what they were physically.

Even with a 24 hour weigh in, I can't see guys like Smith and McMahon making the middleweight limit.