Roy Jones v Bernard Hopkins II 2003

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Jun 20, 2007.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    There was muttering about the rematch at this time. Here's what Ring has to say about the potential rematch:

    Hopkins was 16 defences into his hostoric middleweight reign, ligh-heavyweight champ Jones had just beaten Ruiz for the heavyweight strap...No matter when the fought, Jones' speed would make it a tough task for "The Executioner"...But Jones was never the same after [fighting at heavyweight]...Hopkins was magnificent when he finnaly moved up to light-heavy...he is the smarter, more adaptable, more technically sound fightrer...he would have upset Jones by narrow decision.

    I agree with some of the detail, but it's always hard to pick Jones over Hopkins - after all, Roy beat Bernard pretty convincingly. Do you agree with the Ring's surmise? Baring in mind we're talking about the fight taking place in 2003, as described above.
     
  2. Luigi1985

    Luigi1985 Cane Corso Full Member

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    IMO Jones Jr. would have beaten him again, but not so one-sided he did the 1st time. It wasn´t so that after his HW adventure Roy wasn´t the same, OK, he lost a bit of his skills and speed, but it would be still enough for 99 % of the fighters, I would more favour hard-hitting and variable punchers than a all-in-one fighter like Hopkins.


    Jones Jr. UD 12 Hopkins in 2003 (8-4 rounds)
     
  3. andrewe

    andrewe Ezekiel 33 blocked Full Member

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    Roy Jones JR wasn't the same after heavyweight because he moved down in weight drastically.

    Having to move from heavy to light heavy, or whatever weight the fight would be at would have hurt him bad.


    I would have to go with Hopkins if they fought in '03. Would be a close decision.
     
  4. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think Jones would have been heavily favored in 2003, given that he was coming off a colossal win streak and had just captured a heavyweight belt. He was for all practical purposes viewed as the p4p best in the world by many.. He had also easily beaten Hopkins once before and Bernard had no rep at light heavy. Hopkins was also around 40 ish and no one had any idea that he would be around until he was 50 and still productive..

    HOWEVER - hindsight has shown us that in 2003 Roy Jones was at the beginning of an extremely steep decline where he basically fell into the abyss while Hopkins seemed to be going into a revival that would stretch another decade...

    CONCLUSION: I think a lot of people would have lost money placing their bets on this one..
     
  5. Joeblogh

    Joeblogh New Member Full Member

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    That weight cut from heavyweight back down to light heavy is a killer. Before moving up to fight Ruiz I have UD for Roy. But after coming back down to LHW from HW I have to give the edge to The Executioner in a split or majority decision.
     
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  6. 88Chris05

    88Chris05 Active Member Full Member

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    Well if the fight happened in mid or late 2003 (basically any point after Jones' Heavyweight experiment) Hopkins would win. Remember, Hopkins wanted a catchweight for a possible Jones rematch - if Roy was weakened and slowed by coming back down to 175 for Tarver, it's going to be even more of a struggle getting himself down to 168, 170 or whatever catchweight would have been agreed upon for Hopkins. Jones just about had enough to pull the first Tarver fight out the bag, but Hopkins wouldn't have let him off the hook like that. Better than Tarver at working inside and sapping an opponent's energy through his roughhousing and body shots. I guess you could argue that while Jones said he was willing to compromise with a catchweight before he went up to Heavy, he might not have done so afterwards...But either way I think Hopkins wins after that point.

    That said, I don't think the chronology is quite right here. The clamour for a rematch between the pair really hit fever pitch in September 2001 when Hopkins beat Trinidad to clear up at Middleweight. A few months later in February 2002, of course, HBO had that double-header with both Hopkins and Jones featuring, with that link up interview between them where Hopkins was giving all those fantasy land demands for the fight. It was pretty clear that neither were going to budge from their positions, so Jones instead began targeting Heavyweight rather than planning for a Hopkins return. After that double-header, Hopkins was out of the ring for over a year and returned around the same time Jones beat Ruiz. By then, (early 2003) Hopkins wasn't calling out Jones anymore, and instead was challenging the Light-Middleweight champions to step up and face him (see his interview after Hakkar).

    I don't really remember much clamour for the fight after Jones had won that Heavyweight strap. By then most people were more intrigued about whether Jones could compete with any of the other Heavyweight title holders. Hell, even a rematch with Toney who won the IBF Cruiserweight title around the same time was probably more doable and interesting.

    If there was going to be a (meaningful) rematch between Jones and Hopkins it would have had to happen before Jones fought Ruiz, not after. And I think Jones would have just been too quick and smart for Hopkins again in 2002, hence why Hopkins (in my opinion) was never really serious about the fight happening then.
     
  7. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Incredible athlete vs master boxer/technician, think Lomachenko/Rigondeaux, Jones/Toney, Leonard/Duran 2. Hopkins even said after the 1st fight it would take him a while to beat Jones, because he was simply to athletically gifted, you might as well just add pre exile Ali to that list as well.

    I’m not taking a shot at their boxing abilities, it’s just they could trump guys that were better than them from a technical stand point with pure athleticism, because they were so far ahead of their piers in that area. However, and I am expecting this to happen to Lomachenko at some point (although he is also technically brilliant), when these incredible athletes slow down, their fall from grace and downward spiral is almost exaggerated, due to having relied on these physical tools

    Randy Moss in the NFL is a similar kettle of fish, so dominant, so almost unstoppable that he’d still make a catch if you put 4 guys on him. But he didn’t have the sustainability of a Jerry Rice, because when the physical attributes start to disappear, he lags behind Rice, who was a master at route running, a faster release from the line of scrimmage, YAC potential and maybe the safest pair of hands the NFL ever saw. Moss had roughly 10 good years in him, Rice on the other hand puts up nearly 20, because he wasn’t as reliant on physical tools that then deteriorated.

    Apologies for the tangent, but I thought that is a worth while comparison. At this point has Jones slowed down enough for Hopkins to catch him? I’m not 100% sure and at the time I would have probably said no, but with hindsight on our sight he probably had and you’d have to favour Hopkins here.
     
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  8. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jones UD. Hopkins does not have the punch to do what Tarver or Johnson did
     
  9. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Great post.

    The talk of this fight had already died down by this point.

    Like you’ve mentioned, Hopkins hadn’t fought since Daniels, and the fans were wanting Roy to face the likes of Evander, Toney and Tyson. Also, Tarver was yapping like a dog at every opportunity.

    Hopkins had his chance. They should have fought each other in the summer of 2002. But he blew it by demanding $10m or no fight.

    Regarding a potential fight in 03, it’s really difficult to predict.

    He was absolutely exhausted in the first Tarver fight due to the weight loss.

    He couldn’t have made a 168 CW, so it would had to have been at LHW.

    Could Bernard have beaten the versions of Roy who fought Tarver?

    Absolutely.

    The question is, how would Roy have fared had he not rushed the weight off, and he’d done it gradually?

    We don’t know.

    The thing what a lot of people don’t realise, is that Roy had his Ruiz physique right up until the Summer of 2003.

    I think Bernard would have had a real chance here.

    We saw how great he was against Tarver.

    He should have been at SMW and LHW years before he was.

    I could definitely envisage him beating Roy. But he’d have needed the confidence and a strategy that saw him fight Roy aggressively with a lot of pressure.
     
  10. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The difference of just one year would have made a huge difference.

    Yes, I think Hopkins could definitely have beaten a post-HW version of Roy.
     
  11. Fergy

    Fergy Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It goes all the way, no knock downs and despite lookin like Bernard s won, it's a scandalous draw!
     
  12. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Johnson was beating Jones before he caught him anyway, Jones team said after they had nevder seen Roy caught as much as that.
     
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  13. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jones pretty unconvincing in his boring win over Hopkins in `93 and by 2003 Hopkins was a master technician, Jones was pretty bad when he controversially beat Tarver in their first fight and TArver was nowhere near Hopkins level.
     
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  14. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He should never have been in the ring that night.
     
  15. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Unconvincing?

    He beat him easily with an injured hand.

    Much easier than the official scores.
     


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