Roy Jones v. Fitzsimmons

Tsk tsk this thread went into a downward spiral since I've been at work hahahhaaaa

 

Fair enough, I might misunderstood you.

 

Yes and that's why I made such an interpretation.

Let's go back to Fitzsimmons though

 

Jones

 

It's all good! See, once again we have been able to discuss something, without name-calling... so thanks (also to cross trainer) for the debate.

Anyway, it's now past midnight in my part of the world (and yours too, I believe!), so it's time for me to hit the sack. Good night.

 

It became a vortex of 50% Reddit Debate Religion, except extremely polite, and 50% arguments on the uneasy borderland of boxing and MMA.

Now it appears that there's only the MMA borderland question left. As it should be.

 

Yeah, I'd like to hear the reasoning for the idea that Fitzsimmons wouldn't be able to tie up Jones.

 

Yeah, when chubby little Steve "Mall Ninja" Jennum is throwing journeyman boxers around, it does make you wonder.

(Okay, I'm being slightly unfair to Jennum, who was tough and a police officer. But the guy was the absolute definition of an amateur.)

 

First, I respect the hell out of Fitz. I've done my part in reading and studying film just like anyone here. He is a great and he does belong in the discussion just based his resume. He doesn't pass the eye test to me. I want him to, he just doesn't.

I do agree if Fitz hits him clean, Roy prolly gets sent to the shadow realm.

I don't think Fitz hits him clean and I'm entitled to be wrong if that is the case.


Regarding the religion comparison I first made:

You can replace the word religion with "belief system"... It could be political. Could be a scientific belief. It's that people believe all kinds of things other people tell them to. It happens in every arena as I mentioned.

It seems all the people getting so butthurt about the mention of religion and that have questioned my comparison are thinking of their own religion and choosing to be offended. I'm not going to engage with keyboard Karens... You are offended because you disagree with me. Same as politics these days.

It is as simple as being told what to believe. It's rare people actually make up their own minds by thinking critically and challenging their current beliefs with close scrutiny.

If you're born deep in India, you're probably a Hindu. If I was born in Somalia, I would not have been raised a Christian as I was.... Peoples beliefs have alot to do with their influences most of the time.

So your belief system is usually based on how/where you were raised and what you've been told.

Its ironic that the ones who can't see that it is indeed that simple is also the type of person who looks at film of both Jones and Fitz and thinks Fitz beats him...

 

It's an interesting thing. @janitor is an atheist, and is not only ardently pro-old-timers in these kinds of discussions, but believes the guys who reflexively back modern fighters are laboring under what he considers a quasi-religious belief system.

But that's an aside.

To your main point, I'm not sure how we can avoid relying heavily on what others tell us in this kind of debate. For example, I've never met Fitzsimmons. (Or Jones, actually.) The only way I have to confirm that the skinny, bald guy in the Corbett film is Fitzsimmons is that people I trust -- boxing historians -- have told me so. I think I know Fitz's record on Boxrec because again, Boxrec is telling me that their record is accurate, and I consider Boxrec a reliable authority. I guess I could look up the newspaper accounts myself (trusting on authority that the archives are accurate), but at some point, I'll have to just accept some stuff I'm told.

As to the film, I don't think most of the Fitzsimmons faction is denying that Fitz looks weird on film. They are proposing an alternate explanation of why he looks weird, based on the different rules in the 1890s. That isn't really an argument from authority.

Sometimes old timer fans are in flat-out denial, but this doesn't look like one of those threads. You're actually probably on stronger ground just outright saying Fitz supporters DKSAB and can't understand what they're watching. That would make more sense than claiming they're arguing from authority, IMO.

 

This thread achieved everything it was intended to, and then some.

I tip my hat.

 

Just to be clear, that's not the case with me. I'm not going to carry this debate forever, but it'snot as simple as you paint it out. Of course the environment has massive impact on your beliefs, I never denied that. Critical thinking doesn't turn you free from beliefs though.

Or, maybe my critical thinking gave me different conclusions than you?

 

Bob Fitzsimmons is the hardest punchers in boxing history !! Despite being 5 inches and 11 centimetres tall he knocked out beings from higher dimensions !! He was very durable as he took blows from these beings that would have erased the universe !! His Fitzimmons-Duran-Dempsey-Tyson Shift was simply the most Psychotomimetic cognitio hazard ever !! It involved Fitzimoanthropic changes in the universe's local oriented Invariant hyperbolic spacetime that resulted in a pinpoint perfect knockout !!!
He annihilates Jones without even looking at him !!!!

 

Roy makes Fitz look like ****, but I feel like it’s an eventuality that he gets stopped. Especially if the fight was in Fitzsimmons’ era and with his era’s gloves as well.

I get that the film doesn’t do Fitz any favours against a H2H monster in Roy, I just have a hard time believing that the man who mentored Joe Gans and Jim Jeffries, and was described as the Joe Louis of his era in terms of finishing ability, wouldn’t be able to trick Roy into something eventually. And once Roy was hurt, judging from Fitz’ renowned finishing ability, it would probably be over.