Roy Jones vs Calzaghe at their peaks. Objectively tell me...

Take a look at these posts by General Zod on Jones-Benn

[url]http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12500786&postcount=350[/url]

I think he explains it much better than I can

See I completely understand why Roy would move up to fight Ruiz, a career high payday and a chance to make history. Even though Ruiz is a C class fighter, it makes a lot of sense for Roy.

What I find frustrating, is Roy wasting times fighting mandatories, he would have been better off making a super fight or two. You see, that list of fighters, whilst you can go through and shoot each one down individually, at some point, you have to step back and think why didn't Jones fight at least a couple of these guys. That's where I come to the conclusion that Roy was looking for easy fights and easy paydays, I personally don't think he was interested in challenging these guys. You can say he was motivated by money, but then just how much could he have made fighting these nobodies?

I believe Joe was willing to travel to fight Hopkins in America in 2002, you say Joe should still have gone to America, but to fight who? What American SMW'sw were there? Even if he prematurely moved up to LHW, who could he have fought? Harding? Johnson? Tarver was holding out for RJJ. He had to wait until there was a big name American in his division, i.e. Lacy to get some recognition. You mention Ricky Hatton as an example, but Ricky was lucky to have Floyd around at the same time, to make that mega fight. For Joe, Roy wasn't interested for one reason or another, Hopkins refused the fight,who else was there?

Regards

 

Hi mate,

Those links are great, and I think both fighters wanted that fight.

I agree there is a long list of fighters that he didn't fight. As a fan it frustrates me, but as I keep saying, most of the fighters on the list who he missed weren't as good as Toney and Hopkins. Mike McCallum was also better than most on that list, but he was 39 when Roy fought him, and he was obviously passed his best.

If Roy had've just wanted easy paydays against average opposition, he wouldn't have fought Hopkins with an injury, a 26 year old Toney, and then Unified the 175 division. There would always be someone who he'd have missed. As I've said before, if he'd have beaten Benn, Eubank, and Gerald, but for some reason he didn't fight Toney, he would have got loads of criticism. If he'd have beaten Dariusz, people would have said, well who has Dariusz ever beaten?

At the end of the day, when he's retired, it will be in the record books that he strted his career at 154 and then won a version of the Heavy title. As for Joe, I think he should have fought anyone in Roy's weight class who he could. Someone who was in the top 15, even if it was for rubbish money. He had to look at the bigger picture. He could have fought a nobody on an undercard. If he'd have put in a great display, he would have got written about. He didn't have the character or the confidence to promote himself in an interview.

He could have had 3 or 4 fights In America at 175, saying after each one that he wanted Roy etc. But he didn't have the ambition or the confidence to do it. Floyd wouldn't have watched Ricky fight in his back garden. But Ricky embarrassed him live on TV, and Floyd responded. I don't think Joe had to fight a big name for recognition, I think he just had to fight over there and get coverage.

Roy had no interest in Joe, because he was fighting at super middle. He was never going to come down in weight for him. He had no interest in fighting for the super middle title. He'd already given his old one up, and was comfortable at 175. Joe wouldn't have brought money to the table, because they wouldn't have been a global demand for the fight. The onus was on Joe to make a name for himself to create a demand for the fight.

If every American fan had seen him box over 20 times like we did, they'd have appreciated how great he was, and everyone would have wanted to have seen that fight. But Joe was like a secret, that only a few people knew about. The Eubank fight was huge over here at the Sheffield Arena, but outside of the U.K. it wasn't a mega fight. It was like Benn and Eubank. their rivalry and their rematch brought the country to a stand still, but outside of the U.K. it wasn't a huge mega fight. Eubank wasn't a huge name over there.

I think Joe could have done so much more to try and get a fight with Roy.

 

8-4 RJJ in a fight where Calzaghe's stock goes up immensely. Jones with the flashier stuff so he takes the close rounds and wins them big when he turns it up a notch. Calzaghe the grittier- winning rounds by being busier but less accurate. Perhaps Jones scores a knockdown on Calzaghe but think Joe would see the final bell. Much much more competitive than many people would have thought then and do think now.

 

RJJ no question

 

While I dont have the same knowledge about Jones career as some other posters I have to say these videos effectivly convince me that Jones took an easy path when he thought it paid off. Some people mock him for having a poor chin, but lets talk about his acting skill for a second. He as NONE of it. Absolutely NONE. You can see so clearly on his face and of his body language that he is thinking "Oh man, how do I bull**** my way out ot this one."

 

Hi pal, how's it going? Hope you got my msg.

I hope you're teaching them the right elements though Scott?

If I came down to your gym and peaked through your door, would I see two kids fighting with their arms down by there sides, sticking out their chins to each other, and rolling about on the floor if they'd been clipped round the back of the head? Ha!

It would be great seeing two ten year olds yelling at each other "60/40 I kick yo ass!" Haha!

 

brake shoes

 

:good

 

But he fought and beat better fighters than the one's he supposedly ducked. He Unified the 175 division by beating Reggie in a complete shut out who'd beaten Collins. That's just one example. Of course he fought a few bums, but he had some quality wins, and he made very good fighters look distinctively average.

Regards, Loudon.

 

ESB is getting far too civlised, and now people even start to talk boxing :-( I will soon have to make another "Lets bash Ward because we got nothing better to do"-thread. So this webbpage can be itself again.

 

Is Roy on PEDs?

 

Hopkins was only a contender, who'd accomplished nothing when Roy fought him. If Hopkins had disappeared after that fight, no-one would mention it as a good win at all. Mccallum was completely finished at that point, it's the equivalent of Joe C beating Roy Jones in 2008. Fighting Toney deserves praise, it's after this point where the criticism comes in. Darius was the lineal Champion at LHW, and had a claim to all of Roy's belts, to legitimise his claim as the best LHW, he should have fought Darius. It's like Ali being stripped, and Frazier having the belt, then refusing to fight Ali. How can he call himself champion, when this guy has a claim to the belt?
Fights against Eubank or Benn, Collins or G-man would have been great challenges, these were fights the fans wanted. No-one wanted Jones-Thornberry, Jones-Frazier etc.

Benn had gone to America before to fight Barkley and blew him out in a round, when Iran was still riding the wave of the Hearns win. The point I'm making is that even if these guys weren't household names in America, they were still known by boxing fans, and they still would have made for more interesting fights than the guys Roy took on.

With Joe, it's a bit unfair to expect to go and defend his world title on the road in America, soon after winning it. He was clearly looking for a big fight to get his name across, a fight with Hopkins or Jones. He was a world champion, he didn't want to vacate soon after, and go fight lesser fighters for less money, and no belt. With no guarantee he could have gotten a fight with Jones. I think you're being slightly unfair there.

Roy wouldn't have had to vacate to win his title at 175, I remember Joe winning the title off Hopkins whilst still undisputed SMW champion.

That win over Ruiz for a belt Lewis vacated is one of the most single overrated wins in history, but that's a discussion for another day.

 

Andre Ward used to try and fight like RJJ, til he got taken into deep waters by Darnell Boone Then he became the 'walking textbook' that he is today