Roy Jones vs Calzaghe at their peaks. Objectively tell me...

So Benn and Eubank who had far overall better SMW resumes and been more established champs at the weight would have had to travel to suit Jones. You seem to make excuses for Jones not having these fights and now say that offers to him arent good enough and now that more established world champs with better resumes would have to travel also to suit Jones

 

One thing that I do notice when watching Calzaghe and Jones fight at SMW is how much faster they are then the current crop of SMW. Their handspeed is far greater than even say Dirrell who is probably considered the fastest active SMW

 

roy jones jr baby

 

you're on record saying that Roy Jones was in his absolute prime in his fight against Lebedev.

You also said that Sergei Dzindiruk would dominate a prime Thomas Hearns.

You have zero credibility. Absolutely none. Give it up.

 

Bailey,

Wow! Fantastic response. Thanks!

You'll have to give me a few days to respond mate, I'm busy at the moment, but I'll gladly reply.

Regards, Loudon.

 

Speaking of Jones,Jr.,look for a PPV "event" coming up this fall with James Toney in separate fights.atsch

 

Bailey,

Hi mate, it turns out I've got some spare time on my hands, so here goes.

Roy considered moving down to face Joe on a few occasions, until a better offer came in. Now if you're a huge Calzaghe fan that's biased (not saying you are) you'd call that a duck. I'd say, Joe wasn't a huge name, so Roy went with another option, like he did in 2002. Joe was an option and so was Ruiz. He picked Ruiz for $17m. But all Joe ever was, was just an option. He was never a priority, because outside of The U.K. he wasn't a big name.

I struggle to understand your question that is, why should he have had to go to America? The answer is, America is the home of Boxing. I'm not saying it's fair, but that's the way it is, and that's the way it's always been. Why did Ricky go to America? Why did Benn? Why did Naz? Why did Bruno? Do you think Tyson would have come to England to fight Bruno? All the Money is in The U.S. Joe stayed at home and was hugely popular. But on the other side of the Atlantic, where the big boys are, and the big money is, nobody knew who he was. That meant that there wasn't a demand for him to fight the likes of Roy etc. Because nobody in the States, the fans, the networks etc, didn't know anything about him. So when he gets presented to Roy has a potential opponent, Roy half heartedly considered it, and assesed what he'd get out of it, which wasn't a lot.

Roy went upto Heavy in 2003. I think Joe should have moved up to 175 in around 2000. The longer he stayed at home at SMW, the less chance he had of fighting Roy etc. Regarding the DM fight, Roy was No. 1, he had three of the four belts, all the money was In America, why should he have had to go to Germany? The onus was on DM. But he was happy doing what Joe was doing, defending his one belt at home for good money. If he truely thought he could have beaten Roy, he'd have gone to the U.S. But he didn't want to.

As I've said, If Joe seroiusly wanted a shot at Roy etc, he had no choice but to ditch his SMW division and fight over in the States. Frank had no power when it came to negotiations. Do you think if Naz hadn't have gone over, that he could have gotten a fight with Barrera? Don't be silly! Do you think if Ricky had've stayed fighting in the M.E.N. all of his career, he'd have got a fight with Floyd and Manny? I can give you loads of scenarios. You know that Joe had to go over there. Everybody knows he had to.

Joe wouldn't have been ditching his fanbase. He would have just added to it. Of course he'd have made more money in the U.S. fighting at 175. He would have excited the fans, and despite what you say, the 175 division was better and had bigger names in it. Reggie Johnson, Griffin, Toney etc were all big names over there. Nobody in the States knew who Veit and Ottke etc were. I think Joe would have had a huge following in America. If he moved up the rankings, he had more of a chance of fighting Roy, especially if he'd have had one of the belts. He could have gone over to test the water, 3 to 4 years before Roy moved upto Heavy.

You've made a list of the SMW division in 2005. It's an ok list. But in 2005 there was no point in fighting Roy anyway. I was comparing the SMW division of the late 90's early 00's to the 175 division in the late 90's early 00's. My point was, when Roy was Unifying the 175 division, Joe was fighting in a weak division, that nobody was interested in. Joe could have mixed in better Company at 175 against big name fighters for big money. He certainly had the talent, but he didn't have the ambition.

Now we've just had the Super Six, the SMW division has some good exciting fighters in it. But around 98/99 it was a poor division. Beyer, Woodhall and Reid were good fighters. I've got a lot of repect for them. But once again, they weren't huge names, and Joe would have got a lot more money and global recognition, if he'd have fought or tried to have fought the names at 175 that I've listed. I'm not saying he could have just got on a plane and fought them, but I don't see how, with a little patience, they couldn't have come off.

 

Jones would humiliate Calacrappy

 

Why do you even bother? Did you not realize by now that Bailey is Joe Calslappy.

everyone knows, even joe himself, that rjj would whip his ass!

 

big fights only happen in European country if one fighter is from there


this is not the case in america

 

:nono bailey is one of the most knowledgeable, reasonable, and respected posters on esb.

 

Joe said he'd fly to America for the worthwhile fights but not any others? That attitude is why he didn't get the fights. He put himself in an impossible situation. It doesn't work like that. He had to go over there and build up a fanbase like Ricky did, and get himself noticed. If he'd have knocked Ottke out in 30 seconds and Unified the divison 5 years before he did, it still wouldn't have made any difference when Frank was trying to negotiate for him. The SMW had no popular fighters outside of Europe. Nobody in the U.S. was interested in the SMW division. Because there was never any coverage of Ottke, Woodhall, Reid and Joe. So everytime Frank made an enquiry, Joe was just classed as a good European fighter with a good record, but he didn't bring anything to the table. Outside of the U.K. nobody knew who he was. He had to show people who he was. Naz went over and fought Kevin Kelly etc and had a few fights over there. That's how the Barrera fight got made. Because in 2001/2002 The U.S. fans had been watching Naz for nearly 5 years. I think Joe should have fought absolutely anyone who he could have in America, just to get some publicity. Frank made him fight Manfredo in 2006 to gain U.S. exposure. It was embarrassing, but it had to be done, to try and get him better fights against bigger names.

There's a World of difference between Frank picking up the phone and making an enquiry, and Joe actually chasing Roy. If he wasn't known in the U.S., to the fans, or the networks, because he was fighting at home at SMW how the hell did he expect to get a big fight? I don't even know why you're arguing? They were fighting in different weight classes, in different Countries. So how could he have chased a fight? It's like Ricky staying at 140 fighting in Manchester, saying he was chasing Floyd. It's laughable!
Ricky moved up in weight to get the fight. He had fights in America to get the fight. He fought Castillo and bad mouthed Floyd to get a fight. He stirred up interest. He took Thousands of fans over, that were chanting his name. He was making headlines. That is what's called chasing a fight.

If Ricky hadn't have gone over, and he'd have said, I'll fight Manny and Floyd but nobody else, when Frank made the enquiries, fighters like Floyd, would have just said who? If Joe had've had Ricky's ambition, he'd have been a Superstar! Woods was a mandotary because he was fighting at 175. If Joe had've moved upto 175 he could have found himself a mandotary. Yes Kelly wasn't a big name, but again he was at 175. The point is, Roy was comfortable at 175 in 2002 with an eye on going upto Heavy. Roy wasn't going to comedown in weight for Joe or anyone. That's why he wasn't interested in the Hopkins fight, unless it was 60%. Hopkins was a middle. Roy knew he was going up soon. He wasn't going to come down in weight to fight a guy who he'd already beaten who he didn't like for less than 60%.

Regarding Lacy, Frank says he didn't have a bad injury. The problem was that he didn't believe in himself. It was a psychological problem , not a physical one.

For the 100th time Joe was prepared to go to America? But he wasn't was he? Otherwise he'd have gone before 2008. American's don't have to travel. That is the way it is. Again, I'm not saying it's fair, but that's the way it is. Roy fought on HBO, in Vegas and New York etc. He was recognised a the best fighter in the World, and fighter of the Decade. Why would he have ever needed to have fought abroad? How many times did SRL fight abroad? Floyd etc? Manny's moved to the U.S like many fighters. Do you think Manny would ever fight here in England? He'd never have to do that.

You've mentioned Roy pricing himself out again. Why in 2002, would Roy have been desperate to fight Joe at 168? Of course he'd have wanted nearly all of the purse. Because it would have been a sacrifice to come down in weight to fight a guy who wasn't well known. Roy had abandoned his 168 belt to move up to 175 in 1996. So he wouldn't have been bothered about winning Joe's 168 belt. He could have spent is whole career at 168 if he'd wanted to, but he didn't. So Joe's belt wasn't going to be a huge prize for Roy.

 

Bailey,

I'll reply to your other comments tomorrow. Let me finish replying before you come back though, otherwise I'll not have time ha!

Cheers!

 

I never said Jones was prime when he fought Lebedev, what I did do was highlight one judge had Jones ahead at the end and that Lebedev is considered a world class CW, yet Jones was ahead on one card and unlucky not to score a KD in the final round.
The point I was making, which I doubt you could understand was that people say when a fighter losses that they were past prime and not before then. Nobody was saying Jones was past his prime when he beat Ruiz, yet now so called experts think they saw something against Woods, but nobody did at the time.
Point with Jones was he won the HW title beat Tarver, then got KOd by Tarver then KOd by Johnson and hes called shot, but then he took Tarver the distance. What I asked was could the competition have been something to do with it all? Nobody seems to put up a reasonable answer to that.

I dont recall saying Dziniziruk would dominate Hearns and I dont think he would, though I do remember mucking around saying something about if the two fought when hyping interest in the Martinez/Dzinziruk fight.
I guess you are a bit gullable