Roy Jones vs previous Lt.Heavy Greats

There is nothing wrong with what you said. But h2h is not only about talent, skill, athleticism and stuff. There are many other intangibles that need to be looked at, experience, mental strength, the ability to adept and so on. All those things are questionmarks for Jones at the level we talk about. But not for those other fighters - with a bit of an exception for Foster. Know what I mean?

 

I agree fully, you know I do man. I'm just highlighting Jones' strengths that he brings to the table, because for me the only real major and significant advantages he has are the physical ones. When I said Moore has the tricks I was kinda getting at them being derived from experience etc. I do think though that we can only go on proven weaknesses, and whilst I am fine with us speculating on say mental strength being a weakness for Jones, I wouldn't go as far as to label it a disadvantage for him in these fights, because that is just that, speculation. It may be a problem, it may not, so I'm not going to slap that on him. What I do know is that his chin can be a problem for him and I'm good with us focusing on that as a bona fide disadvantage for him.

 

does he get to roid up to 5x the normal testosterone limit in these like usual? :stir

 

Well, I agree with that. I don´t label that as disadvantages. Just as "question marks". Alone by talent he can hang in with anyone from 160 to 175. For sure. And if judging those fights alone from that perspective he may come out with a slight winning or losing record. I think it would somewhat look like the following
vs. Charles - loss
vs. Moore - win
vs. Spinks - loss
vs. Loughran - puh, that´s a tough one, Loughran beat Greb though who was described as very very fast but didn´t have the power of Jones. Still ... I think Tommy takes that. Loss.
vs. John Henry Lewis - didn´t see enough from him to judge.
vs. Conn - loss
vs. Tunney - loss
vs. Greb - no film => can´t judge.
vs. Foster - win
vs. H. Johnson - win
vs. Delaney - puh, when Delaney was on he was a tough nut to crack but he wasn´t always. I pick Jones. win
vs. Bivins - didn´t see enough from him to judge.

4-5 with 3 NCs. Not bad against that kind of competition.

Well and then there are guys like Fitz and Langford from another era which comparing to me makes no sense.

Including Jones I guess that´s my Top15 (no order) would look like.

 

good post. All of these fights are hard to assess for me, I always have difficulty when it comes to Roy.

 

What do you think of a Lloyd Marshall matchup, bodhi?

 

I don´t know, that´s one I stay clear from. Like with Bivins or Lewis I know the resume and what they achieved but I have no grasp of them as fighters.

 

Jones would have taken something on the chin by Foster that would have left him unconcsious for a long, scary period of time...and i don't care whether it was pre, or post--Ruiz Jones. At all stages of his career, he had that fragile chin...just nobody was ever able to reach it...but the deadliest hitting 175 lb'er in history would have..with frightening results.

 

Spinks could probably do the same with the Spinks Jinx.

 

Conn vs Jones would be the closer for me......

Foster, Charles, Moore, Spinks...... I don´t think so.....these guys would beat Roy.....

 

I think a lot of great fighters (truly great) in their heart of hearts think that they can beat the other great fighters of their weight class from other eras. That sort of mentality and self-belief is often necessary to propell them to the heights that they acheive. Sometimes it makes the fighters sound ridiculous and causes them to make crazy claims but that self-belief is vital in a great fighter.

 

Roy Jones is the most dominant fighter from 160-175 of all time, its rare he loses a round, some of those guys people pick over him like Moore, Conn, were getting beat by B Class fighters in their prime. Who's Moore beat that is close to this speed level? Look at him against Patterson, Burley, Charles - his quickest opponents, what happened? He lost all 5 fights. Who's Conn beat that's near this level and what's his advantage?

Most of the fighters that get picked over him, they've got a punchers chance at best and that's it, Spinks/Foster aren't that durable themselves and they surely aren't landing first, seriously question - can they take Jones punches? How's Foster going to get his left hook off against the fastest left hooker of all time?

Loughran/Bivins wouldn't win a round in Jones era and would be considered bums for some less informed fans that reason

Tunney and Charles are the only 2 with decent chances, but Tunney might well pay for dropping his hands against a much faster man

 

On one part of me thinks it's insane to bet against jones. As much as we all know there are some guys he didn't fight - he still schooled two atg's in hopkins and toney.

On the other hand how can we favour jones over guys who did fight the best out there.

At worst i'd say he's 40-60 against any lhw in history.

If only he'd beaten dm we could evaluate him with much more certainty as being someone who cleaned out his division. I think he beats jackson, benn and dm but without him doing so it's difficult ranking him because them 3 guys were arguably the best guys in each division.

Jones is an atg. And to say he has only 3 names missing is impressive enough because a lot of greats are the same. As a lhw I think he's top 15.

As a rough list I have

Charles
Moore
Fitz
Langford
Tunney
Greb
Foster
Conn
Loughran
Jones
Spinks
Maxim
Burley
Bivins
Levinski

That's off top of my head. I think tarver ranks quite high also. At lhw jones achieved an awful lot and was the best guy for a while as well as being the highest ranked lhw. It's such a shame he didn't get dm out of the way instead of hill.

 

Bivins, Charles, Moore, Tunney, Conn, Maxim, Johnson, Tiger, Foster, Spinks all beat him.

Guys like Galindez, Mustafa, Saad, Braxton, Pastrano, would be a chance also.

 

Seed kills and Jones had a lot of speed perhaps more than anyone else in boxing history. Even if his chin was always weak. There is debate to rather or not it was or if time and weight change from light heavy to heavy back to light heavy had a toll on his chin. The fact is that to knock him out you hd to catch him first. Ezard Chalres has the best chance but I'd still take Jones over him.