Roy Jones vs. Sonny Liston

I'm not going to claim that Williams was an atg or anything, but he was a tall powerful heavyweight with decent skills and I can't see Jones beating somebody like that. I wouldn't say Williams was any crapper than say Hasim Rahman who I'd pick to beat Jones.
I don't like Roy Jones and I'll make no secret of it, he's the american Hamed in terms of personality-no further explanation needed, but I know how good he used to be. That said we're talking about heavyweight here and in all honesty if there was one title in modern times like there was back then can you envisage John Ruiz coming anywhere near holding it? There's a reason Jones never fought anyone else. Ruiz was made for him, being as he is clumsy, plodding, having a very very low punch output and nothing in his arsenal other than a stiff straight right hand.
As I say I rate Jones but against any decent heavyweight I wouldn't favour him and Williams is no exception.

 

I think Jones has more chance than many here think so.


He is generally being judges on his KO losses past the age of 35. How fair is that? What if we judge Liston on his disgraceful quit job against a light hitting opponent after a mere six rounds, coming off his peak win? Or being knocked out cold by one punch the first time he fought a contender after that?

Do you think Jones would have that much trouble with the likes of Harris, Patterson or Marshall, a lightheavyweight who broke Liston's jaw, knocked him down and outpointed him? Liston was not in his prime, but it does show that he's not quite invincible against a LHW and since everyone is using fight when Jones was not in his prime, why not this one?

And sorry to say this, but Ruiz was merely one inch shorter and had 10 pounds on the beast Williams. On top of that, Ruiz has better accomplishments than Williams, who lost almost every time when stepping up. Could Jones stand in front of him like Liston did? Nope. But he'd be on his bicycle all the time, picking his punches. Let's be reminded that Ruiz barely won a single round against Jones.

Speaking of being on your bicycle all the time, picking the punches, what did Liston do when confronted by that? Cut off the ring? Give his best and go the full route trying things to pull out the win?

 

Good Lord you're an idiot.

 

Ruiz is no Liston! Liston throws every punch much better and harder, has better defense, is not affrid to engage ( like Ruiz was ) and had even greater reach. Jones could not play hit and run to defeat Lsiton. He'd get caught.

 

I think Roy Jones Jr.'s best hope is to survive the distance, which he possibly could do.

At 5'11 and 193 pounds, and with his talent and skills, I dont see RJJ as being much less capable than an Eddie Machen (who went 12) or Bert Whitehurst (who went 10).
It's possibly then that Jones could dance and spoil his way through the contest.

But Liston's gonna have him on the end of his jab all night, and Jones wont want to risk feeling the full force of it, so he'd do best to run all night. Liston only has to get through with a solid crippling body shot or clip RJJ with a hook off the jab, or even connect solidly with his power jab, and it could all be over for Jones.

Then again, Liston might throw the fight.

 

Liston would have kept Jones at the end of his jab all night, with Jones fighting in spurts only looking to survive. Jones was no Ali in terms of speed of both hand and foot, not when he moved up to heavyweight at least. Jones does not have the power to get Sonny`s respect either, and I don`t see how he is going to be able to potshot Liston and win on points, not with the long jab of Sonny`s who had an 84 inch read I might add. Jons can and will run, but he won`t be able to hide and eventually Sonny catches up to him and knocks him out.

People make it seem as if beating John Ruiz is such an accomplishment, yet I could name several former lightheavyweights who would have just as easily defeated John Ruiz, and this without a referee like Nady who didnt so much as allow him to get close to Jones, nevermind actually letting him clinch and maul him like he has done in ALL his other fights except for the one with Jones, I wonder why? Hmmm......

Someone mentioned that Jones would have defeated Liston`s competition for the most part, and I can agree with that to a certain degree. But beating Liston`s opponent and beating Sonny Liston himself are two very different things, and that is a bridge too far for a beefed up super-middleweight like Jones to pull off. Jones can survive for a few rounds and maybe, juuuust maybe he can hear the final bell... but if he did he loses a wide decisiion as he won`t be outboxing Liston but rather looking only to survive, and you don`t win fights that way.

 

For those who think Roy Jones Jr. could box Liston along the same lines as Cassius Clay did, they should realize that Jones was nowhere near as big as Clay.
Clay's arms were as long as Sonny's, Roy Jones was more like Floyd Patterson size.

 

And Jones is no Patterson.

 

I don't he (or anyone else) could make Liston look so thoroughly amateurish, but given Liston's slowness, inability to cut the ring off and Jones' insane speed, i think he has more chance than most here think. As others said, Machen and Whitehurst also went the distance.

 

Machen and Whitehurst did go the distance that is true, but they fought stritcly to survive and not to win. They knew they had no chance and as such spent most of their time looking to avoid getting their heads knocked into the bleachers. It is also important to keep in mind that Bert and Eddie were NATURAL cruiserweights by today`s standards whereas Roy was a blown up supermiddleweight, so their ability to withstand punches from Sonny would be markedly better than Roy`s should he get tagged with a good punch.

As for Liston being slow, you do realize that the Ali he faced was probably the quickest fighter the heavyweight division has ever seen before or since? I daresay that on that night Ali would have made many a great fighter look slow and plodding by comparison, he was that fast on the night. Liston could cut the rng off, but by the time he faced Ali he was getting up there in age and wasn`t as quick on his feet as he had been a few years earlier. Like I said in a previous post, Jones doesn`t have the power to hurt him, and he ain`t as fast of hand and foot as the Ali that Sonny faced either... so how is he going to win this fight?

 

Well, I myself mentioned Machen and Whitehurst.

Yes, I believe RJJ could possibly go the distance.

 

Well, Jones was around 180-185lbs for most of his lightheavyweight bouts come fight time and 170+lbs for most of his supermiddleweight fights because of the modern weigh-in rules. Remember that Ali won the olympics at LHW. I'm not saying Jones is a natural heavyweight or anything, but he spend a lot of time at lightheavyweight while weighing over 180lbs.

And the way Jones fights is to avoid getting hit. Most of the time against Ruiz, he'd look to just survive, but still won every round.

Yep, but Jones matches if not exceeds that speed. On the downside of course, Jones can't take a punch like Ali, lacks the physical strength, etc. He's no Ali! But he's fast as hell.

I think Liston looked slow all of his fights, not just the Ali ones. How fast would he look if he fights Roy Jones?

No he couldn't. I've never seen him cut the ring off. He fought Ali coming off his career best win. Yet he magically forget to cut off the ring against an obviously speedy opponent? Declining reflexes, stamina, counterpunching ability etc is one thing, but you don't all of a sudden forget how to cut off the ring. A 60 year old farmer can do that when driving his cows in a corner.

Ali didn't have the power to hurt Liston either... or well, he staggered him once, but generally, he couldn't make Liston afraid of him. Still he made him quit after only 6 rounds. And i do think Jones is as quick of hand and foot as Ali, perhaps faster.

 

I thought Liston cut off the ring quite well against Machen at times. But there's not much you can do against a clever opponent who clinches, wrestles and spins his way through a fight in an effort to survive - that's exactly what Machen did. He hugged and grabbed at Liston a heck of a lot.