Roy Jones.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by VG_Addict, Dec 16, 2014.


  1. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

    12,328
    129
    Apr 23, 2012
    I totally agree with you there, he was a genius in his prime. Its just sad that he doesn't get ATG credit from enough folks due to the fab four being around when he was. My memory fails me these days, so I can't remember where I read it, but apparently Leonard told McCallum when they bumped into each other in Vegas in the 80's that he couldn't speak for the other 3 but he wanted no part of Mike as he saw it as too high risk, for too low reward.
     
  2. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

    12,328
    129
    Apr 23, 2012
    What part of he cheated at least twice are you having trouble understanding?

    He hit a downed fighter = cheating.

    He tested positive for steroids = cheating.

    Don't expect anyone or everyone else to look through your rose tinted specs.

    He didn't make the fight with Michalczewski, because of some **** about not wanting to travel due to some being robbed as an AMA ffs. Funny how after getting fvcked by Tarver & Johnson, plus outclassed by Calzaghe he was willing to go to Australia, Russia, Poland, and Latvia, but to go to Germany and fight Machalczewski to become the undisputed L / Heavy king, oh no Mrs.
     
  3. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

    12,328
    129
    Apr 23, 2012
    Seriously!!

    Have you considered going to specsavers?

    Now you are trying to tell us what our own eyes can see for ourselves. McCallum was a totally spent force in that fight. Tiozzo was hitting Mike at will. It could have been on the fvcking moon if you like never mind France. He was finished as a fighter of any serious worth.

    Also.

    Are you absolutely certain that you want to compare

    W. 173 ( KO's 108 ) L 19 ( KO's 1 ) D 6 S.R. Robinson. Bear in mind the KO loss was due to heat exhaustion 3 rounds after Ruby Goldstein the ref was carried out due to the same.

    With

    W 59 ( KO's 42 ) L 8 ( KO's 4 ) D 0


    and be taken seriously in the same breath?
     
  4. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

    40,818
    10,179
    Mar 7, 2012
    As daft as it sounds, if Roy had've had more competitive fights, he wouldn't have got criticised as much, IMHO.

    The best example to illustrate this, is when he fought Ruiz, and Toney fought Jirov.

    Toney vs Jirov was the fight of the year, because it was a great, competitive fight.

    Toney gets huge credit for that win.

    Yet Roy hardly gets any for the Ruiz win, because it was so easy, with little action.

    Now before Toney went to HW, did you hear anyone say "So what if he beat Jirov? He hasn't gone to HW!"

    Whereas after Roy had beaten Ruiz, it was "So what, he didn't beat the real HW champ!"

    Now IMHO, if Roy had been dropped against Ruiz, or cut, and it was an exciting back and forth fight, then Roy would have got the plaudits.

    But because he shut him down with hardly throwing much, the win gets ridiculed instead of being celebrated.

    Ruiz wasn't easy on the eye, but he was effective.

    But it seemed that whoever Roy beat easy, they were classed as nobodies.

    Yet a lot of those guys went on to do good things after Roy had beaten them with ease.

    It's hilarious and also sad, when people trash his resume.

    Is his resume not as good as the resumes of the guys who he beat, and the guys who he missed?

    Roy is severely underrated on this forum.
     
  5. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

    40,818
    10,179
    Mar 7, 2012
    He was a true ATG, who is very underrated IMHO.

    I'd have him beating anyone at 154 today, including Floyd, and anyone at 160, including GGG.

    I've not heard SRL say that, but I'll look into it.

    I've got his autobiography, but I've only read 2 chapters.


    :good
     
  6. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

    40,818
    10,179
    Mar 7, 2012
    You can't lay all the blame at Roy's door for the Dariusz M fight falling through.

    Dariusz had no intentions of going to America.

    After the controversy with the belts, he was content to just defend the WBO in Germany.

    Roy was the best fighter in the world back then, he'd beaten better fighters, and he held the three main belts in the division.

    The onus was on Dariusz to go to Roy.

    The reason why Roy's since gone to all of the countries that you've listed, is because his circumstances have changed.

    He's no longer the man, therefore he now has to make concessions.

    When he was in top, he didn't need to travel.

    Because he had the power in negotiations.

    He had the belts and he fought exclusively on HBO.

    But now he'll fight wherever he can, just to try and move up the CW rankings to try and land a final title shot. (which is a bad idea)
     
  7. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,467
    3,041
    Feb 17, 2008
    but that's exactly the point everyone makes about his career. those results change when a fighter has to take the tough path. And not that comfy path of least resistence.

    The other factor is the wear and tear of tough fights. Jones was rarely hit against those C grade fighters he was in with. He sure did get hit more when he faced the few A grade guys. What he didn't do was absorb like any sort of great fighter. He dished out 90% and absorbed 10% in his fights. Some guys can only operate well when they can hold all the cards like that.

    Once things get competitive, their ko % drops a ton and the accummulative effect shortens their effectiveness. How quick did Roy's absorption skills deteriorate after meeting a non puncher in Tarver 1? Their first fight saw Jones hit more than he had in his previous 5 fights. And Tarver is not any sort of hitter.

    So if Jones faced McClellan/Benn/Collins/Liles/Nunn/Dariuszand those guys, how many quick ko's do you see?

    What is the absorption rate against those guys compared to what he endured against Frazier and Pazienza and so on?

    Do you think there is not any deterioration? What would be the result of that deterioration and when?
     
  8. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

    12,328
    129
    Apr 23, 2012
    A lot of that is nonsense Loudon, and you know it.

    There is no onus on anyone to go to America. Prize fighters go where the money is best, and if Jones was offered the better money to go to Germany he should have taken it.

    Also I distinctly remember Jones getting fiercely criticised by promoters and pundits saying that he wanted ridiculous money ( 5 million at least I believe ) to fight bums like Frazier, Telesco, and Hall, which couldn't draw flies to s.h.i.t. With all due respect, other than fanatical Jones followers like you, who the fvck was gonna shell out good money to see Jones in a glorified sparring session?

    As for the Ruiz bore fest, that just shows how dumb yanks are, and how easy they are to please. Apart from Ruiz being a plum, Jay Nady as sure as fvck made sure he was never going to be allowed to do the one thing he was half decent at and that was brawl and maul. Everytime he got Jones on the ropes he clung on like a limpet, and Nady screamed break louder than a ten dollar ***** who'd lost her purse.

    If ever a fight was crooked that was it. It made Joe Cortez, handling of Hatton / Mayweather look like a picnic.
     
  9. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    27,967
    12,808
    Jan 4, 2008
    I think McCallum-Tiozzo could have gone either way. If Mike had had the home crowd, he probably would have won it.
     
  10. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

    24,478
    127
    Aug 13, 2009
    That is bull****, and the reason the fight has never been discussed as controversial until this thread by you. It is only controversial in your mind.

    Very hypocritical to dismiss Jones' losses and hype McCallum.
     
  11. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

    24,478
    127
    Aug 13, 2009
    Even if you want to play that angle, the decision was still hardly controversial.

    Hell, before the cards was annoucned the commentary was speculating that Tiozzo stood a chance of getting robbed despite being France because McCallum was far more marquee and had just clearly suffered an unexpected loss.
     
  12. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

    24,478
    127
    Aug 13, 2009
    I was calling into question your standard of greatness when you just stated Jones had an ordinary resume.
     
  13. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

    24,478
    127
    Aug 13, 2009
    He absolutely was and still is.
     
  14. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

    24,478
    127
    Aug 13, 2009
    No, it matters if it was 9 year previous and alot had changed.

    Something he had not had since he fought Toney.
     
  15. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

    40,818
    10,179
    Mar 7, 2012
    He didn't take a path of least resistance.

    When he was prime, he wasn't in many competitive fights. That's not just because the opposition was poor, it was because he was on another level.

    The Tarver fights came after Roy had fought 50 times, and after he'd burnt muscle to come back from HW. He was also 35.

    Of course fighting guys like Frazier and Paz, would have been easier fights than against Gerald and Dariusz etc.