Roy Jones.

Hopkins improved from his loss against Jones Jr.

But Jones Jr in his prime was levels above anyone Hopkins ever beat. I'm just being realistic.

Jones Jr would have beat him exactly the same way.

Hopkins fought a lot of guys tailor made for him with stipulations.


A fast prime Roy Jones Jr would always beat him. Hopkins hates boxers with a some speed.


Roy Jones Jr already beat the guy so why would he be scared to take the fight again? Fair enough if it was a war but it wasn't one.

It wasn't exactly a close fight.

Roy Jones Jr doesn't strike me as someone to duck fights. This is a guy who went upto the heavyweight division. He fought hard hitters on the way up.

Jones Jr didn't care about his 0.

Hopkins might have the better resume. But was he an overall better more gifted boxer? I don't think so.


A smarter ring tactician? Possibly yeah. He may have more ring smarts than Roy Jones Jr. But if you go by boxing ability then no he doesnt

 

Was ODLH even rated in the top ten P4P when they fought?

Edit - he probably was still. Looked bad in previous fight though.

 

Was Jones really prime in 2002? We don't really know, as he wasn't tested.

Nah, nothing to base that off of. And Jones certainly fought plenty of tailor made opponents himself.

I don't believe he was scared, just stubborn and content with belt collecting and showboating against overmatched opponents. Hopkins himself was content with chasing the title defense record, worth bringing up since people are acting like there was some dark secret that kept him from moving to LHW or not settling for anything less than 50/50 to move up until after he lost to Taylor..that was it folks, he just wanted Louis' defense record or to be well compensated for giving it up.

He really didn't go up to Heavyweight. He fought a heavyweight. A heavyweight that some would say was tailor made for him.

That's what it boils down to and my entire point. Jones is assumed to be an all time great H2H, but where is the resume? He didn't get the fights made. We got one true test very early in his career against Toney, that's it.

 

Yep, he lost some ground after Sturm but was still top 5, as it was believed he had just beat Mosley.

 

Did he improve, his technique somewhat yes but not as much as is made out and he got slower and his workrate also dropped.

Hopkins just didn't fancy it, he didn't really fancy Calzaghe either turning that fight down after he was offered the amount he initially asked for and doubled his demand. It's been shown to you that Hopkins despite not being able to draw flies asked for more money than Jones for their fight.

Hopkins turned down millions in those fights to make a few hundred thousand in his next fights.

He tried to get other HW fights. Holyfield stated to Jenna for Ontheropes radio show that he turned down 20m for a Jones Jr fight after the Ruiz fight because he felt they were trying to make him 'look stupid'. Jones wanted Tyson as that was the big money but Tyson was busy.

Regarding a Lennox Lewis fight I'm not entirely sure why it didn't happen but from what I gather Lennox thought it was an unfair bout as he was too big for Roy and knew him from the amateurs.

These were the only real big PPV fights at HW, so he went down to LHW for Tarver and the rest is history.

 

Hopkins was never a natural athlete like Jones. Ring IQ and experience is everything for a fighter like him, I don't think Hopkins really hit his stride until the late 90s. I think it was a good win for Jones, but you are vastly mistaken if you think a 3 year pro Hopkins is the same man that rose to status as one of if not the best on the planet nearly a decade later. Hopkins is more in with guys like Walcott, Moore, and other late bloomers that learned on the job.


I would point out that Jones was not a huge draw at this time either, and between the two, Hopkins had been in the more high profile biggest grossing match. And no, it has not been shown to me. We just have Jones and his team claiming Hopkins unofficially demanded over 70% of the purse over the phone, I find that far fetched and hard to believe. When Jones had just pubically for all to see demanded 60% to Hopkins 50%.


Again, none of this revokes my comments. Jones didn't get the matches, he fought one heavyweight. All the excuses and theories can't change that. After the promise of the Toney fight, Jones did not deliver the fights. We can debate the hows and whys, it's a discussion that has fans split on this forum countless time, but my comment stands. Jones sucked at making fights, and failed to prove himself against the opponents people thought could have made things a little interesting for him.

 

I have no problem with that. Nothing wrong with chasing history.

Jones was chasing history as well. Not only in winning against Ruiz, but again after dropping back down to fight Tarver. Edit - Though I don't think that was the original plan when he went up.

It's almost like you're giving Hopkins more credit for beating ODLH then Jones beating Ruiz.

 

The Ruiz win really wasn't all that historical. Ruiz really wasn't the Champion. A LHW moving up to beat a top 10 Heavweight isn't that uncommon.

That depends on how much you read into size. Beating a much bigger but good fighter. Or beating a smaller all time great fighter in a super fight. Being the only man to put Oscar down for the count is certainly not too shabby of a claim. Being one of two former MWs to outbox Ruiz in their 30s, not bad but...

 

The Mongoose, I'm not a big fan of ODLH, so I probably don't rate him as highly as you do.

 

Hopkins had over 100 amateur fights.. He was no Olympian, but he was a darn good fighter in 93 when he fought Roy.. Looking back, That fight was fought at a high skill level for two unproven fighters.

And you can believe that win was hanging over Hopkins' head... He would say multiple times that was his only real defeat and wanted revenge.

I wanted to see it too.

I agree, and I wish it were that way, but I also understand that boxing is a business, and a head to head win against someone is negotiating power, I understand why Roy would want to have the upper hand from a financial standpoint, being the one having to drop weight to fight someone he already beat, while eyeing HW.


Can you at least see Roy's side of why he felt he should get the bigger purse? I don't deny he had a huge ego, as does Hopkins, but I feel Hopkins was the one that needed this fight more, and wouldn't take a 60-40 split. He is more at fault than Roy IMO.

 

You're not even reading people's posts.

It's like talking to a wall.

What do you mean 'except'?

Both guys have huge egos.

Any win at all, is extremely significant when negotiating.

How many times does it need explaining to you?

What don't you understand?

What don't you understand about the fact that Bernard would not fight Roy at his weight??

How can you expect a guy to come down for a catchweight for an equal split?

He expected Roy to drop 6/7 pounds, to fight him for nothing other than money, for an equal split.

If you looked from Bernard's perspective, it was a chance for revenge.

If you look from Roy's, he had nothing to gain.

I have to question your intelligence.

This is just pure logic that we're looking at.

Roy held a win over him, and would had to have lost weight, just for for the opportunity to have beaten him again.

What more of a case could they possibly be?

 

Maybe not, but a former JMW moving up to beat a top 10 Heavyweight is.

That was a money fight, I thought Oscar clearly lost to Sturm and had no business in the ring with Hopkins. Roy was fighting a HW, that could knock him out at any moment, and completely took him to school.. That outshines Hopkins' win over Oscar by far IMO.

Toney is another legendary fighter, with a better MW and HW resume than Jones Jr.

 

The only guy with the problem here, is you.

You've been completely biased, you've questioned logic, and now you're instantly dismissing a link.

I guess Brad Jacobs was lying, without question?

How ignorant are you?

You've implied all throughout this thread, that Roy ducked everyone, and his career was all smoke and mirrors.

Yet when you are presented with links that prove otherwise, you're happy to instantly dismiss them without question.

atsch

 

That was not a huge win for Hopkins in my opinion... I was not impressed with Oscar at MW, and I felt Hopkins would school him easy.

Sure Hopkins started a little slow, and Oscar landed some decent punches early, but I was aware pretty quick that Oscar was in against a bigger, stronger, better fighter. We all know Roy would have thrashed Oscar too.

Roy's win over a much bigger Ruiz is a greater win, I don't know why anyone would try and argue that.

 

Trinidad fight clearly was. Business wise fighting ODLH was a smart move.