Roy or Sweetpea ? Who was greater ?

OK, my explanation will be very disjointed as I'm cobbling it together from old posts I've written as I don't have the time or energy for it tonight:


Record + Quality of Opponents = Resume.
Resume: Whitaker wins.

Domination: Equal. Jones was more dominant for longer at 175, but the Michalczewski factor counts against him. Whitaker was WBC/WBA/IBF champ at 135 and beat far better fighters there than Jones beat at 175. Whitaker would be ranked just as high all-time at 135 as Jones would be at 175, or arguably higher.

Titles in most weight classes: Equal. Four each.

Longevity:

Whitaker first fought for a world title in 1988, first won a world title in 1989. Whitaker last held a world title in 1997, last fought for a world title in 1999.

Jones first fought for and won a world title in 1993, last held a world title in 2004, last fought for a world title in 2004.

Edge to Jones in this one.


H2H

I will attempt to examine this by looking specifically at their absolute peaks:

The Whitaker of the Haughen fight, Ramirez II, Azumah Nelson, the lightweight version of 1989-1990

or

The Jones Jr of the Toney fight, right up to the Brannon fight (encompassing wins over Byrd, Pazienza, Thornton, Sosa and Lucas), the supermiddleweight version of 1994-96


If you watch the fights encompassed in these two periods, Jones looks like the more explosive and probably slightly more 'above' the fighters he was fighting against, ie whereas Whitaker hopelessly outboxes and outclasses whoever he is in with, Jones looks like if he got annoyed and went for it, he could just KO his opponent and end the fight at any time.

However, IMO Whitaker was fighting a higher standard of opposition at his absolute peak than Jones was, and this works as a metaphor for their whole careers, hence the reason I rate Whitaker higher in ATG terms but find them difficult to separate in terms of ability at their respective absolute peaks.


I think Roy Jones Jr from 1994-96 at 168 was the greatest fighter ever h2h.

Now, I think this because of his incredible natural gifts of athleticism, punching power, reflexes, and speed of hand and foot...

...ie, his PHYSICAL gifts.

I don't think any other boxer in history could have stayed with him and beaten him at 168lbs because of his sensational physical gifts - gifts which allowed him to dominate everyone he fought at 160 an 168, AND be a wonderful fighter at 175 AND win a world heavyweight title by beating a man with a 33lbs weight advantage.

IMO, Roy is the greatest of all-time h2h because I don't believe anyone could have matched his physical attributes... but on boxing ability I think there are a few better fighters.

I don't think there has ever been one at 168, but if a fighter came along who fought at 168 that could match Jones for speed and power, but also had the variety and strength and resilience of say, a Pernell Whitaker, then I doubt Roy has the variety, the technical skills, the defensive nous, to adapt and defeat him.

In essence, Roy is the greatest 'plan A' fighter ever, but not the greatest 'plan A, B and C' fighter ever.

Whitaker had a plan A, B and C, and he could use them when required.



9 times out of 10, I rate the guy with the better resume higher in all-time p4p terms. I see no reason to go against that here.

Jones has achievement, longevity, athleticism and power over Whitaker.

Whitaker has resume, technical skill, defence and resilience over Jones.


They are two of the most talented fighters ever to pull on gloves IMO, and I love them both as fighters, but I say Whitaker is the greater fighter by a whisker.

 

Roy, without a doubt.

 

Whitaker for me.

 

Sweat Pea is the greatest fighter of the last 20 years

 

I disagree because that´s just a style´s thing. Tyson will always look more dominant than Ali, does that mean he was better?

1 pound in the lighter weights mean more than in the higher weights. The higher the weights the less important weights get. That´s why there are more weightclasses with less difference in the lower weightclasses than in the higher. Whitaker fighting at mw is the same as Jones fighting at hw in terms of weightclasses. Can you imagine Whitaker fighting Jones? I can´t, the difference is too big.

You don´t get what I meant with that. Try again.

 

Whitaker. Just.

 

I voted for RJJ, but could live with this one either way.

Pea has a much better resume, and is easily top 5 all time at 135. RJJ was the greatest ever at 168-175 for me.

 

You consider Jones the greatest Light Heavyweight of all time?

 

Hopkins has just surpassed him.

 

Yeah, the win over the great Kelly Pavlik put him over the edge.

He was never even that close to begin with. He's still behind Jones Jr. and Chavez and on par with a guy like De La Hoya.

 

Great post, i agree: Whitaker has the better resume, Jones was head to head a bit better. It's close on both accounts, though.

 

Has he ? Because of the Pavlik fight ?

 

He was as much HWT champion as Pea was LMWT champion when Pea beat Vasquez only Roy beat the 225 lb Ruiz FAR easier.

Please dont try take that outstanding win away from Roy, that was truly a special achievment AND performance.

:thumbsup

 

Whitaker. I gives Jones credit for being a very talented boxer, but Whitaker never ducked anyone or cherry-picked any of his opponents.