Roy vs. Leonard @160

I don't think Leonard was really all that special at middleweight and above.

Marcus Geraldo is hardly Roy Jones, and Leonard still was below jr. middle for that bout, when he was much closer to his prime. The fight with Hagler was very impressive given the circumstances of Leonard's inactivity and size, but I don't think the 1987 Hagler is on Roy Jones level either. Hagler had slowed down some, and was considerably easier to hit, as evidenced by his fights with Roldan and Mugabi. The circumstances of the Donny Lalonde fight favored Leonard with the weight loss and all, and Leonard didn't look too hot in that fight anyway. And Hearns, who really won the rematch, had just been knocked out by Iran Barkley, and struggled a lot with James Kinchen.

At welterweight, and also probably junior middleweight, I think extremely high of Leonard H2H. At middleweight and above, I don't.

 

I agree 100%

 

I respect your opinion.... I personally believe the Hagler that Ray fought would beat pretty much any version of Roy Jones...
Do you honestly see Jones beating Hagler? Just interested...
I have never seen Jones going to the wall and finding a way to win...
Maybe its a generational thing ..but i really cant see Roy Jones beating Leonard, Hagler or Hearns..weight does not matter..lets say 154-168...

 

Right then kiddo. Hit me with that boxing knowledge.

How does Leonard win?

 

So the natural Welterweight is on a completely different level at Middleweight than the bigger, stronger, faster (at MW), more natural and accomplished man at the higher weights? And to top it off, Jones is a top 10 ATG?

Where exactly did you pick up this so-called wealth of knowledge? You sound like an illogical, uneducated fool to me.

 

Add in that Ray would have beaten Ruiz....

 

Weight usually does matter when you have guys of close caliber in quality. SRL, Hagler, Hearns, and RJJ are all great fighters. It's that whole "a great big man beats a great little man" thing. Sometimes the opposite happens, but generally, the bigger man should win when the skill/talent levels are close. I also find it hard to favor fighters of the past due to changes in weigh-in rules, when the skill/talent levels are close. Duran at lightweight was amazing, but H2H against the rest of the Fab 4, he fared the poorest. Being older also didn't help, but there was the size disadvantage as well.

Hagler-Jones is a great matchup. Jones was bigger, but still a little green, at 160. I've always felt that Hagler would be best off being more aggressive, like he was against Tommy, rather than boxing patiently like he often did, if he were to fight Jones. I can see a prime Hagler beating Jones, but the older, slower version, I don't think so.

As far as Jones needing to go to the wall, part of that is also because of he didn't need to. He was better than his opponents and didn't allow the fights to be that close. I don't see smaller guys like Leonard forcing Jones to that point where it's that close.

Now if you've got a fight at light-heavy, like a Spinks or Foster in there with Roy, now that's a different story.

 

Come on soloth educate me....:deal

 

Many good points there...I think the key thing you say is...Roy didn't need to ever go to the wall..well that is probably true...he has never faced an all time great... just imagine he was facing a Hagler, Hearns, Leonard...he would be facing something different...

Just for fun..what would be your take on Jones- Hearns at 160?

I am sure there are other shitforbrains on this site that would assume Roy would win by easy KO... because Tommy started as a lightweight

Do you remember when an old fat Duran fought Hagler? He gave him the fight of his life....Was that because Hagler was not a good champ?

 

Silly child...just wait....

 

Come on.

 

Jones by stoppage.

That would be welterweight

No, Hagler was amongst the best MW's of all time. Duran was just great at getting in peoples heads.

 

Duran was in great shape when he faced Hagler. I doubt you've even seen the fight.

 

I thought Hagler-Duran was the one of the most overrated "close" fights ever. Duran gave a good account of himself, but I didn't think it was close. I had it 10-4-1. Duran must've had some magnetic jedi mind trick with judges around that time, because he lost almost every round a year earlier against Benitez and they had it really close.

Tommy started at welterweight, I don't know where you're getting the lightweight thing from. But I'd pick Roy. Tommy's chin problems were more pronounced at middleweight.

I disagree that Roy never faced an ATG. I consider B-Hop an ATG. Both guys were a little green though. Toney, that's arguable, but at least he's a second-tier great. Hagler never faced an ATG that wasn't moving up in weight and better in lower weight classes. He performed fine against Duran and Hearns, handily winning a clear decision (IMO) and stopping the other in 3. I assume Roy would do just fine against smaller ATGs.

 

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