Ruben Olivares vs Canelo Alvarez, who's the greater fighter?

Ruben Olivares. All there is to say really.

 

Ruben Olivares is my fourth favorite fighter of all-time and on the very short list of best bantamweights of all time. His downfall was staying in shape . That problem stopped him from being greater as he moved up in weight. I'm going with Alvarez by just a bit.

 

Canelo had more success across more weight classes (although it's worth noting that "jr" divisions didn't exist in Olivares' day), but he was never as dominant in any single weight class as Ruben was during his bw heyday. Ruben has a case for being the GOAT bw, whereas Canelo never came close to being the GOAT @ any weight. It would be like comparing Hagler or Monzon to Cotto.

 

I think that its one of those questions we have to answer with context.

Yes, Canelo fought more champions and he has probably a better resume, including fighting a guy, Floyd, who is short-listed in the 15 greatest fighters of all time list, and yes, he was more successful at bigger weights than Ruben (the reason I have Roberto Duran higher than Julio Cesar Chavez in my all time ppp list)

But in Olivares' era we didnt have 4 sanctioning bodies so, naturally, he beat less world champions. We also did not have weight clauses, hydration techniques and electrolytes and stuff except water maybe, we didnt have newer medicines that are used now by everyone in general and medical techniques and whatnot, which athletes also use...not to mention other things athletes use these days...

When i watched video of Olivares taking on Lionel Rose, which was a young, prime Olivares, he truly looked unbeatable. After he became champion, he enjoyed the night life and the high life. And that started taking a toll.

Among world champion Mexicans, he was the first one to capture the Mexican public's imagination. There were others before him who either were idols or world champions, like for example, Baby Arizmendi, Kid Azteca, Ricardo Moreno, Juan Zurita or Lauro Salas, but not the two things

Before Salvador Sanchez, and then Julio Cesar Chavez, Olivares was the one considered the greatest Mexican world champion.

I think, all things considered, Olivares gets my nod.

 

Olivares was 69-1-1 going into the first Herrera fight, including 64 stoppage wins. His sole defeat was on cuts to Castillo, who he beat twice, either side of that loss.

Ruben is my #2 BW all time and I could easily see him occupy any of the top 3 slots in that division.

Canelo was the more professional and disciplined once they became stars. In terms of years, if not number of fights, he has better longevity remaining as an elite fighter as a consequence.

Canelo won world titles in more weight divisions, but he never attained the level of a peak Olivares of, for example, the Lionel Rose fight, though.

It's what you like, really.

 

Id say Canelo's...

 

Olivares:

Lionel Rose
Chucho Castillo (2-1)
Bobby Chacon x 2
Alan Rudkin
Jesus Pimental
Salvatorre Burruni
Effren Torres
Octavio Gomez
Jose Luiz Ramirez

Canelo:

GGG (2-0-1)
Kovalev
Lara SD
Jacobs
Trout
Cotto
Moseley
Angulo
C. Smith
Saunders
Rider
Plant

Canelo has a bit more depth and purely as a list of names without context he probably takes it overall too.

If I look at context to extrapolate who was the greater fighter in their respective primes, though, I come to a different conclusion.

Lionel Rose is my #7 all time BW and GGG my #13 all time MW. The split of fan scorecards for Canelo's first win over GGG was relatively and, iirc, with more scoring for the past prime GGG. It was also preceeded by a draw that the vast majority scored for GGG. GGG was 40 by the time of their final fights. Rose was prime when Olivares obliterated him in 4 very one sided rounds.

Add in that Kovalev and Moseley were way past prime, Cotto was much smaller and past prime, and the split of fan cards vs Lara was relatively even, with agian from memory, a slight edge to Lara, and if you've got good knowledge on the careers of Castillo, Rudkin, Pimental and the bigger Chacon, who Olivares beat twice whilst past his own prime, and you get the impression that Olivares was the greater fighter, imo.

 

I read the thread title and threw up in my mouth a little.

So, yeah, Olivares.

 

One gets questionable decisions against foes in a watered-down era, the other is a great fighter.