Rubin "Hurricane" Carter Dead at 76

If by legit solid contender in a deep middleweight division you mean a guy where two of his four biggest middleweight wins were alleged to have been fixed and whose biggest win came over a welterweight and who spent just two short years as a contender before he devolved into a tomato can/murderer, then yeah he was as solid as someone with those credentials gets.

 

Gents,
This has been most interesting reading, thanks. Something of an eye-opener actually, just shows (once again) the level of spin and selective reporting that goes on in the mainstream media.

I had a certain amount of knowledge of Carter, but must admit I was not as "up to speed" on Carter's story as the contributors on this thread, I'd never delved that deeply into this particular story, although I was aware of the factual inaccuracy in the movie about the Giardello-Carter fight.

It certainly makes one question the accuracy of the mainstream media's portrayal/perception of Carter.

I know this thread has not been totally about boxing per se (how could it be with Carter the subject matter?), but for me the quality of this thread is what the Classic Forum is all about.

Quality stuff!!!

 

:-(

 

In order to believe that Carter was innocent you must believe the following:

A. That the murders were committed by two men in a white car using a 12 bore shotgun, and a 32 calibre pistol.
B. That Carter was travelling in a white car at the same time, that happened to have not one but both of the calibres of ammunition used in the murders in it.

I submit that this is quite a lot to chalk up to coincidence.

 

Well, that welterweight went on to win the middleweight title twice. Plus that same welterweight was only stopped twice in his career, and one of those happened to be Carter in a fight that most certainly wasn't fixed. Neither was the kayo of Fernandez. Those results alone establish him as being someone who pretty dangerous, at his best.

He hit the wall hard and flamed out. These things happen. Doesn't mean he was an easy out all the time.

 

Rest in peace!

 

Not just a white car but a white car with very distinctive tail lights and a new york license plate.

 

And losses to:

Herschel Jacobs in 1961
Ernest Burford in 1962
Jose Gonzalez and Joey Archer in 1963
Giardello and Rodriguez in 1964
Harry Scott, Tiger, and Rodriguez in 1965
Johnny Morris, Stan Harrington, and Rocky Rivero in 1966

In a career that only spanned 61-66.

Suggest he wasnt as solid as hes been painted. When your career lasts only 5 or 6 years and encompasses only 40 fights (in that era) and you still totally shot by the third or fourth year of your career at only 27 or 28 its kind of the antithesis of being solid. The simple fact that he didnt even deserve a title shot but was given it because Giardello chose him as a soft touch as opposed to the more slippery Archer tells you everything you need to know about him. That fact, combined with Carter later pretending that the Giardello fight was a robbery makes the idea that he could have been champion of the world, as Bob Dylan and his fans would have us believe, laughable. Carter was a lot more limited than his fans want to believe and Larry Merchant, who covered him in person many times, said it best "When he couldnt knock you out or scare you he ran out of ideas."

 

He split the series with Jacobs and Scott, and got revenge on Buford twice. No shame in losing to Tiger or LMR, since they were both great fighters. Carter wasn;t, but that hardly means that he wasn't a quality fighter in his own right.

Yes...his career was short. That was probably to be expected, given his style and mindset. Still, was matched tough early and did well enough to establish his quality as a fighter. If you're facing guys like Mims and Fernandez within a year or two of your debut, and defeating them, you're not exactly taking an easy road to the rankings. And if you have victories over the likes of Griffith, Benton, Mims, and Hernandez on your ledger going into a championship fight, you've more than likely done enough to earn a Top 10 ranking and the label of being a contender worthy enough to challenge for the crown.

No, he didn't beat Giardello in his one crack at the championship, and he certainly wasn't robbed of victory in that fight, either. But he fought well in defeat, and didn't look out of place in there. There have been far worse challenges than the one that Carter provided.

Again, Carter was, at his best, a good contender who for a short period of time managed to carve out a nice place for himself in a tough division. He was a tough, durable guy and chances are if you were going to beat him you had to be, at the very least, a pretty good fighter in your own right.

That's his legacy as a fighter. Nothing more...but certainly nothing less.

 

LOL, you probably have a point! That said, I cannot get the beard right, and I am too arrogant for the self loathing thing. But the sandals...

 

He was found guilty twice with multi-coloured jurors.
The aquittal was based on technicallities.

 

Yes, procedure was not followed!

 

TBooze, a question for you...

Do you believe Carter & Artis killed the 3 people in the Lafayette?

 

I do not think the evidence is strong enough from what I have read on the subject.

 

Fair enough Tbooze, thanks for replying to my post.