Rubin 'Hurricane' Carter

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Baclava, Dec 21, 2013.

  1. LobowolfXXX

    LobowolfXXX Member Full Member

    420
    1
    Nov 24, 2013
    Only the first means freedom. Actual innocence doesn't guarantee freedom, and actual guilt doesn't guarantee a loss of freedom. He's either innocent or guilty regardless of any court proceedings and regardless of anyone's opinion. I suspect most of "the authorities" share my well-founded belief that he's guilty, as it's based on facts that have been known to them for decades. I may be wrong, and I may be right. The fact that I believe he's guilty doesn't make him guilty, but the fact that he was released from prison doesn't make him innocent, either.
     
  2. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    25,324
    1,801
    Oct 22, 2006
    If we are getting abstract, innocence or guilt are purely man made concepts.

    Carter has been through 'hell' to prove in a modern society he is innocent, I would of thought even the most bitter Conservative would give him that...
     
  3. LobowolfXXX

    LobowolfXXX Member Full Member

    420
    1
    Nov 24, 2013
    You'd have to ask a conservative...I'm not one. Nor am I a liberal.

    Nothing abstract about the terms. If he did it, he's guilty, and if he didn't, he's innocent.

    I agree that he's been through hell, but if he's guilty, imo, it wasn't enough. He's a free man, and the dead are still dead. Of course, if he's actually innocent, he's been through way too much.
     
  4. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,157
    3,917
    Feb 10, 2013

    Actually Carter has not only NOT proven his innocence, he has not even attempted to. Now, the burden of proof isnt on Carter, I understand that, but lets not go and make up **** as we go along to make Carter look like a martyr.
     
  5. jowcol

    jowcol Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,334
    792
    Jul 22, 2004
    I read The 16th Round as a youngster and for many years considered him innocent but have come to the point to see him as guilty for a lot of reasons.
    His lifestyle was less then a model of a good citizen, father, and husband.
    He hung out with "lowlifes". Out that fateful night drinking and crusin' with said lowlifes with wife and kids at home.
    He career was already on the downslide at the time, despite Dylan's lyrics but hey, Bob wrote eulogies about George Jackson and John Wesley Harding as well, a pair of scumbags.
    As previously mentioned was never found not-guilty.
    Was released temporarily? in 1976 and was in attendance at the Ali-Young scrap. Didn't he assault that female reporter earlier that day?
    But the most damning evidence comes from Ron Lipton, a former fighter, referee who considered Ruben his continuing friend years after the murders. He used to post extensively on another obsolete boxing website and is now convinced that his friend did the deed. He recalled watching a testimonial function after his release where various 'luminaries' were extolling his 'virtues' only to watch Ruben's body language thruout; stoic, with his head held low, obviously uncomfortable with everything they were saying about him. I could go on; you can google varies sites that go into detail event by event, times, evidence etc. that doesn't make it look very good for him.
    My $0.02.
     
    Smokin Bert and red cobra like this.
  6. LobowolfXXX

    LobowolfXXX Member Full Member

    420
    1
    Nov 24, 2013
    Most cases (prosecution/plaintiff or defense) look good if you only see the one side. Relatively few cases, either civil or criminal, ever make it to trial; when one does, both sides almost always have some points in their favor. When you get that other side, it's not unusual to reconsider your position.
     
  7. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

    12,328
    76
    Apr 23, 2012
    Personally I believe a certain Robert Zimmerman has more intelligence, integrity, and pure common sense than any scumbag politician, judge, lawyer, policeman, or their racist tame dogs.

    Therefore when he composes a 12 minute song proclaiming Rubin Carter's innocence I tend to believe him.
     
  8. Surf-Bat

    Surf-Bat Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,736
    70
    Jul 20, 2010

    Probably not the wisest move:
    This content is protected


    "Zimmerman" doesn't even have the intelligence, integrity or common sense to bother to get his facts straight.
     
  9. LobowolfXXX

    LobowolfXXX Member Full Member

    420
    1
    Nov 24, 2013
    Great song, but the integrity sure wasn't on display when he wrote the lyrics. A few e.g. off the top of my head - the eyewitness did NOT say it wasn't Carter; Carter wasn't the #1 contender or close to it (relevant to the defense argument why would he throw away such a promising career?); it wasn't just the "all-white" jury agreeing OJ the verdict - the black jurors voted guilty, too...". I like Dylan, but the song is a total work of fiction.
     
  10. Italian Stallion

    Italian Stallion Active Member Full Member

    738
    276
    Apr 8, 2018
  11. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Member of the PC Fan Club Full Member

    2,576
    2,506
    Jan 28, 2018
    Ask Quentin Tarantino about that.
     
  12. red cobra

    red cobra Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    38,059
    7,291
    Jul 28, 2004
    There's only a remote, outside chance IMO...I sure hope he does.
     
  13. LoadedGlove

    LoadedGlove Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,632
    3,046
    Dec 6, 2019
    On the grounds of achievement in the ring, it would be difficult to justify. It was the US Judicial System that wronged him and owed him, not Boxing.
    Thanks for the shout.
     
    Italian Stallion likes this.
  14. Italian Stallion

    Italian Stallion Active Member Full Member

    738
    276
    Apr 8, 2018
    I think because of the movie and song there's that remote chance. Ward has a way bigger chance of getting in IMO.
     
    red cobra likes this.
  15. red cobra

    red cobra Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    38,059
    7,291
    Jul 28, 2004
    Hadn't thought of that...I think you're right.
     
    Italian Stallion likes this.