S.I. (1955) -- Was Jack Johnson greatest heavyweight?

Jack was far more than Louis in skill and could dispose of anyone he wanted any time he wanted. Remember the way he carried Ketchel until the fight got serious? They had to pull the teeth out of Johnson's glove. and that was with gloves on

 

Please. Louis would have had Ketchel out inside three rounds, and not suffered a visible bump on his face as Johnson did. The teeth being pulled out of the glove is a boxing myth.

 

Johnson could have knocked Ketchel out early too , but he carried him to make money from the film rights.
Anyone who thinks Johnson was going full out in that fight should take up watching another sport ,such as wrestling.
Ketchel's manager Willus Britt ,[ brother of Jimmy ,]retrieved a tooth from the ring canvas and had it set on his watch chain,and that is no myth. You originally said Johnson suffered a black eye in this fight,now it's a "visible bump"?
In this fight you had one man fighting at half his ability to give a show to the crowd ,the other fighter is going full out.
The bump you refer to was the result of a Ketchel left hook to the jaw in the 7th round. As the fight progressed it dissipated and at fights end had dissapeared.
Maybe Louis would have been dropped by the punch? He was dropped by left hooks in a couple of fights.

At the post fight interview Johnson was described as unmarked.
Ketchel looked like he had been through a meat grinder ,and that was with Johnson pulling his punches up until the ko.
What is interesting is that Johnson a heavyweight was appreciably faster than Ketchel, a middleweight.Johnson had no trouble landing his jab on Ketchel , he hit him when and where he pleased ,and picked him up and placed him on his feet on the occasions that he hit him a bit too hard.

 

Still waiting for that source that Phillips rated Jeannete over Johnson.I have one that states Phillips rated Johnson the number one heavyweight.

 

Johnson had a safety first style. We all know this. A safety first style can be confused with carrying an over matched opponent.

I read Johnson vs Sam McVey recently. McVey was awful, and Johnson if he wanted to could have stopped McVey earlier in the third fight, but he didn't and this one wasn't filmed. Was Johnson carrying McVey too, or was he just watching out for his power, like Ketchel had?

This is not true. Johnson was visibly marked up by Ketchel who hardly landed anything at all. I showed you this before. Please stop regurgitating false information.

 

Now I'm posting the round by round report..

Of course you will be wanting to apologise after you have read it.


You willl note phrases such as ,toyed with him, picked him up, patted him with an open glove,and the description of Ketchel's face at the end.
You will also note there is no reference to Johnson being marked at the finish
http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=LAH19091017 being markedat the end.2.82.38.2

The false information all comes from you, as we know from past experience .You are a proven liar ,exposed many times by me and recenty by Klompton.
Please provide a primary source that states Johnson suffered a black eye in the Ketchel fight,as you have several times stated.
While you're at at it, please provide primary sourced proof of some of your other lies.
For example.
Burns had jaundice when he fought Johnson

Burns broke Johnson 's ribs.

Johnson deliberately fouled Jeannette because he was losing
.
Johnson was stripped of his title by the French Federation because of the poor showing against Jim Johnson.

Jewey Smith was Jewish

Langford dropped Johnson.

Jeffries won several rounds against Johnson.

Louis was protected in his fights by crooked refereees and officials.


There's just few samples of bull**** stories that have come from Mendoza Land.
All of course unsubstantiated , and will continue to be so.

What a strange chap you are.
Do yourself a favour , forget about your hatred of Johnson ,park it somewhere, and watch the Johnson v Ketchel fight objectively,and without bias. Then come back here and state that Johnson was not carrying Ketchel.

 

I see you are not going to go there with the visible mark comment. Now you are twisting my words.

Some say he did, and it its reported he looked ill. At 168 pounds it was a low weight for Burns.

Unknown. Where did I say this? What thread? I think your stretching what I said.

He fired multiple low blows according to the Boston press, and some reports said he lost round one.

The french wanted to Strip Johnson for not fighting Langford.

He is is categorized as such.

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Jewey_Smith

Fool, I said it was reported by the French and Langford's manager.

He won more than one round, and was competitive in others. We have been over this...

Stop twisting words. I said Donnvan as his had terrible score cards for Louis, and Louis manager was mob connected and convicted for illegal stuff. I also said Walcott's camp would not have him as the ref when he fought Louis. This is true.

PS: Five E's in referees. TRY again captain spell check.

You have far more than I.

 

How could Mendoza confuse a safety first approach with what he saw in the Ketchel fight is beyond me.. We LITERALLY.. LITERALLY see Johnson PREVENTING Stanley from being KD from punches and listing him up as he was falling and place him back on his feet... We literally see this.. that wasn't a safety first thing.. that was him figuratively and literally carrying him.

 

As I knew before hand, no primary sources provided by you, just a lot of obfuscation.

Stop press! "some say," is not a primary source.

Do you remember when you said the Johnson v Johnson fight was scheduled for 20rds but halted at 10 rds to save Johnson's title?
Do you remember stating that the French Federation withdrew recognition of Johnson as champ because of his poor showing with Battling Jim?
I'll refresh your memory because you are now saying something totally different..
Here's your post.
"We know you have to need to believe Jack Johnson won a match. The crowd wasn’t happy with him. Johnson of course didn't bother for a re-match. In fact the French were so upset with him, they tried to strip his title."


The French stripped Johnson of his title a month before he fought Battling Jim, it had zero to do with the draw they fought because that was still in the future.

The night after Johnson fought Battling Jim,Sam Langford fought Joe Jeannette for the vacant title as perceived by the French Federation,Langford won, a month later he was stripped of the "ttile and Johnson was reinstated.

On the subject of Jewey Smith you claimed he was1.Jewish ,2.SouthAfrican,
Smith was born in Aldgate London , never even visited South Africa,and was C of E.



Do you want me to go back and find those posts?
Do you want me to post the fight report of Jeannette being belted around in the first round before claiming a foul in the second?
Here it is.

JOHNSON BEATS JEANETTE
Negro Champion, However, Was Disqualified on an Alleged Foul
11/25/05-PHILADELPHIA LEDGER
"After outclassing Joe Jeanette for a round and a half, Jack Johnson, The
Negro Heavyweight Champion of the World, lost the bout at the National
Athletic Club [Phila.] last night on an alleged foul.
Jeanette, after being thumped in lively fashion in the first round, assumed
a crouching pose in the secondround. He undertook to run in and clinch,
ducking a vicious right hand swing. Johnson ripped a right hand hook up for Jeanette's jaw. The latter dropped to the floor,writhing in apparent agony.
He claimed to have been struck a foul blow."


Another of their fights below.

12/02/05
PHILADELPHIA, Pa., Dec. 4.—Stirred
into action by the. yells of disgust from
the spectators. Jack Johnson made things
lively for Joe Jeannette in the last two
rounds at the National A. C. Saturday
night. In the fifth round Johnson knocked
his opponent down once and in the
last round he sent Joe to the mat hwicn.
Nearly all the hard punching was concentrated
in those two rounds. Johnson
t r i e d to knock out his opponent in the
sixth round. He rushed and sent Jeannette
to the ropes with body blows. Johnson
then floored Jeannette with a right
swing on the jaw. The bell rang before
Johnson could get started again
01/16/06
"Jack Johnson,; the colored heavyweight.
who challenged Jim Jeffries at
different times, made his New York debut
in the ring ;in a three-round bout
at the Sharkey A. C. Monday night
with Joe Jeanette, and the negro Johnson,
as usual, showed his skill as, a
boxer and had no trouble In outpointing
Jeannette"

Should I mention that Johnson fought Jeannette just a week after the controversial dsq and floored him 4 times in their 6 round fight?

Do you remember claiming that Ward, in his biography of Johnson"Unforgivable Blackness" stated that Battling Jim deserved the decision against Jack Johnson? Do you remember me posting this extract from Ward's book,totally refuting your statement?

"When the two men met at the Nouveau Cirque,on December 19th 1913, nothing much happened for two rounds.
Both men were counter punchers,and Battling Jim seemed especially wary.
Inthe third, the champion launched an attack , that sent the younger man reeling.
Then, for no apparent reason, he pulled back.
There were cries of Fake!
Some customers called for their money back.

In fact, the champion had fractured his left forearm slamming the challengers head,and had to fight the next seven rounds with just one hand,clinching whenever he could.

At the end it was the younger man who was breathing hard.The referee declared the bout a draw.
The crowd ,unaware of Johnson's injury hissed both men.
"A terrific hubbub marked the conclusion of a wholly unsatisfactory encounter,"the London Times reported.
2 The audience dispersed, comtinuing to express its disapproval of the whole proceedings". Johnson walked away with just a little over $1000. His contest with Frank Moran would have to be postponed until spring".



Unlike you I produce proof, not fairy tales.

Why on earth would he need to foul a ,man he comprehensively beat several times and whom he floored multiple times?

You want to pull me on spelling ?

Try DONNVANatsch :nut

Do you know how much of a buzz I get out of humiliating you?


bbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz:rofl:yep:hey:good

 

Mendoza only sees what he wants to see.

 

I report what I see. You regurgitate the reports you like and dismiss the ones that do not suit your agenda. You're too stupid to know the difference.

I could post many fights where Johnson won a decision, but could have finished the other guy if he pressed it. He's more risk adverse than Wlad.

 

What you never do is respond when you are caught out in a lie.You blatantly ignore primary sources that demontrate the innaccuracies and sheer deliberate falsehoods you incessantly propagate.
I begin to wonder if you even appreciate how you constantly and publicly trash your own credibility.

We all know Johnson seldom went for the ko, he was content to humiliate his opponent,[ as I do you] .Yet you often compare Johnson's common opponents with the likes of Jeffries and say Johnson did not ko so and so , now you are totally contradicting that stance.

Can you not see what an imbecile this makes you?

As long as you post here I will rip you to bits.
It's like a daily fix.

I have some surprises already lined up for you.

Stay well, I need you healthy for my daily entertainment.:hi:

 

Johnson wasn't allowed to fight other black challengers in his prime because the promoters said the white public would not pay to watch two black men fight. Johnson didn't get to defend against another black fighter until he went to France.

 

Those deals were available before with better opponents than Johnson. He had already fought in the UK and quite a bit in Australia. The idea of fighting abroad was not exactly alien.

 

I forget how many times I've posted the details of two proposed title defences against Jeannete having the plug pulled by the authorities. Ditto Johnson signng to fight Langford but Woodman not coming up with the cash binder to enable the fight to proceed.

No promoter in the US not Curley or Coffroth would promote an all black title fight at heavyweight because, as both said, it would not draw flies.
McIntosh briefly considered doing so in Australia but withdrew his offer when Johnson fell foul of the US Government.

Johnson was making $30,000 for fighting the likes of Flynn , whom he had already thrashed no doubt he did not over exert himself to defend against infinitely more dangerous opponents who happened to be his own colour.
The name of the game is £$£$ Langford and Jeannette battled for relative buttons.

Langford's two best purses were both in the Uk for fighting Lang, and Hague, both white.

There has however never been a convincing argument that either McVey ,whom he outclassed three times and who never expressed an interest in going for a fourth, or Jeannette whom Johnson dropped multitple times in their series, or Langford who won and lost against both , would do any better in a title shot.

Its accepted that they improved after their defeats to Johnson, it's also a given that so did he. To be given a realistic chance they would have to be in top shape and he would have had to be in the soft condition he was for his white hopes jokes.
The flaw in that argument is that knowing he was in with a considerably better calibre of opponent you would assume he would train accordingly.

Langford himself was often out of shape but unlike Johnson it sometimes meant he lost ,whereas Jack scraped home the winner .