Sailor Tom Sharkey vs. David Tua 15 rounds

You're full of ****, Tua beat 2 Linear Champs and 2 other champs, none were particularly worse when he fought them. I know it hurts he'd **** the **** out of your boy Maricano too :yep

(note: Tua is a true gentleman of the sport and want not use the discracefull language I rightfully use)

 

I am not trying to denigrate Tua's power. It is obviously there. But, you cant just denigrate Jeffries power because he had problems with a fighter who was one of the best in the world, when he stopped most of his other opponents. He certainly KOd every single opponent that he fought, who was not a world class fighter. (the same cant be said for Tua, not that this means Tua didnt have power). His power was enough to knock out all but a few of the world class fighters. Some survived, but they were all beaten (or at worst drawn, at a timeof inexperience, where most close fights were considered draws). The same cannot be said of Tua. He lost fights to sum of the very best fighters he fought (though maybe it says more of his skill/commitment than his power). All of Jeffries opponents struggled with his power, and most succumbed. Further, when he landed clean he could also end the fight quickly and without warning (eg Corbett). The same cannot be said about Tua. There is no real reason to say that Tua has more power than Jeffries unless you believe in the evolution theory. Incidentally, if you do, then by association you would be pretty much accepting that Tua also has more power than George Foreman.

Fair enough, we should get it back on track.

Jeffries? What happened to Sharkey v Tua?

This is a good point, and i do agree that Sharkey isnt the perfect fighter to face Tua. Certainly Corbett is a much more likely proposition. I actually think this would be a war and a great fight. My whole argument is that Sharkey is being dismissed too easily.

I do have no doubt if Tua catches him clean like he caught say Shane Cameron or John Ruiz, early he will win thefight. But just because Sharkey wasnt a defensive maestro doesnt mean he was going to be hit cleanly guaranteed. Have a look at Sharkey's record, before about 1900. It is actually very good, and he certainly had some decent power of his own. I dont think he hit as hard as Tua, but he certainly may have. I think he definitely had more power than say john ruiz and maybe he was not far off the level of a Hasim Rahman. If he lands, his power is going to worry (not necessarilly KO) Tua. And the longer the fight goes (despite what Tua did in the ike fight) you would have to think the better Sharkey gets.

I agree that Sharkey isnt elusive, and he does go to war, as explained above. I certainly wasnt questioning Tuas power and such in relation to Sharkey. Just pointing out that worst fighters than Sharkey have gone the distance with Tua, so there is no reason why Sharkey cant. Incidentally, i havent necessarilly picked Sharkey to win.

Here is a question for you though, what if instead of bringing things up to modern rules, we go back to the old days. 15 rounds, no Decision, both fighters agree not to press the knock out and carry the other fighter, if required. Can Tua outscore and outbox Sharkey, to win a Newspaper Decisision?

I didnt make fun of him, I was the one who originally mentioned Wooden (and there are others).

Byrd is not that bad a result. Everyone loses and Byrd is a world class fighter, as you said, in form. I was just making the point that everyone is taken the distance from time to time against someone. Jeffries happened to be taken the distance against a very good fighter where as tua was taken the distance against lesser fighters. How does this possibly equate to Tua demonstrating more power? Dont get me wrong, i accept that it possible, but if this is the case, the Sharkey fights cannot be the sole reason. And with there being no decent footage of Jeffries, you can only compare by record.

Here is a question which may demonstrate the point. To undefeated fighters coming up together are 10-0. One is about 6'2 220 lbs. He has knocked out all of his opponents, but he has been taken the distance twice by a guy who was recognised in some quarters as a world champion, but has been kod before and is quite easy to hit. The other is 5'10, 210 lbs. He has also knocked out most of his opponents but he was taken the distance by a couple of guys who were not world class but who did run a bit.

Now obviously you cant say for sure but which of these unknowns has the questionable power?

I think in this thread, people are dismissing Sharkey as a nothing (and JEffries strength), i dont think that is good. Incidentally, you wouldnt know it by the way that most people assume that Sharkey is there to be hit and conveniently forget to mention that Tua is also there to be hit by Sharkey.

It also seems to be forgotten when praise is lavished on Tua for KO ing "World" Champions that one of these guys lived in a time of 4, not 1 title belts, yet strangely he is not the won who has a claim to any sort of World Title! In todays environment, if Sharkey did what he did in his own time, he would probably be a long serving 3 time World Champion.

And of course i am always a little mischievious.

 

I think the fact Tua only got one title shot given his record, is more down to poor management from Cedric Kushner and Tua's NZ mentor/trainer Kevin Barry, if he'd been a Don King fighter like Ruiz, Rahman and Byrd he would have done a lot better.

 

I dont disagree. And i am not really trying to damage the Tua legacy. It is just that because Tua is fresh in everyones mind, people seem to tear down and write off the older fighters. Sharkey did as much as Tua, beat as many good fighters and world ranked fighters, had a similar KO rate, and in his own time was probably thought of in a similar way to how Tua is now.

 

I think he would be the World Cruiserweight Champion today, at the moment.

Where Would that place him? Well the last world Cruiserweight champion - Adamek is about 6th or 7th. The one before that is about 3rd on most lists and is a world champion. I think he is probably about 3rd or 4th somewhere around there, and about the same as he was in his own time.

 

Thats interesting, I really know jack about historic fighters, particularly pre-WW2 and its great there is still a lot of knowledge of them and the culture they lived and fought in.
The whole pre-internet mass media age and people living in their own cultures meant fighters were probably quite different from each other and it makes for a rich history.

I just see on the youtube clips light-heavyweights and cruiserweights wheeling away and they have some speed but you see the ones without a jab and think a larger iron-chinned heavy puncher has got to go through some of them.

But if Tua or other moderns lived then they would be smaller and probably fight in a similar way. They were the best of their era just as modern champs are today, and no doubt even bigger stronger HW champs will be around in another 100 years.

 

So that i dont mislead, i should have indicated, that Sharkey was knocked out a couple of times, and i dont think that his chin, despite the good showing against Jeffries, was on the same level as Tua's.

 

Sure but he was a perennial top contender who could give and take a lick, an iron horse of his time

 

I highly Doubt that. Marciano is too skilled on the inside for Tua. He will outwork, outough, and outland Tua for a clear points win. Tua was not a great heavyweight. Remember, were talking about David Tua here. Not George Foreman or Mike Tyson.

 

Anyone here seen any good quality film of Tom Sharkey ?

There are a lot of bold claims being made about what he could or could not do, but not much to back it up.

 

So...you disregard all the names and accompishments I listed and focus on Brian London. I guess if you stick your head deep enough into your own ass you can see whatever **** you want.

 

Only full facts, friend. Wow, my post hurt you.....real bad. So what is it about Quarry and Marciano that threatens you so bad...could it be their lack of bulging muscles, the shape of their noses...their ...their light skin? Does a successful white boxer...make you feel inferior somehow, does it make your dick feel smaller? I think you have some serious issues that go beyond boxing.

Oh, and this is America..feel free to jerk off to whatever you want to. If Italian/Samoan action is your thing..go for it. Not sure if this is the right place to share though...

 

-He wouldn't, he would be in prison no doubt. Guy seems crazy.

-Seriously from what's written he seems like he was on the Quarry level, a great Championship contender, but not a Champion. Maybe he would beat some good guys but lose to Lewis? This is highly theoretical at any rate with far too many variables to realistically consider with a straight face. I was of course jesting earlier in the thread. This isn't Louis vs. Vitali, its a whole different ballpark.