Salvador Sanchez KO2 Harry Greb

But by the bucketload they would get you some distance surely? I see Greb as kind of the dark side of the Roy Jones coin, limited technique but stuff to make up for it in spades. BTW, I don't accept that there was this gulf in technique, and I think that the Langford footage Bad Intentions posted recently proved, but that is not actually my point.

Well, that's not a bad description of the great Joe Frazier.

His defence was all about offence.

I agree, he would get hit a lot, but he'd also be doing a LOT of hitting. I think, apart from making him a millionare many times over, this would also make him a succesful fighter in the modern era via points wins and TKO's. IF he is as busy as has been said, and IF he was as durable and granite-chined as his resume suggested.

What evolution of defence? Why would his "little shots" be less effective for scoring points and winning rounds? Becuase he would score less? Why would he score less with bigger gloves?

Similair things could be said about Dick Tiger, George Foreman, I was hearing something similair about Hatton before he took out Kosta (in fact, I remember saying myself he may not be technical enough to step up).

I think that Greb's stamina would allow him to stay busy - very very busy - throughout a 12 round fight. I think his chin and durability make it likely that he will not be stopped. I think his punch rate would be so high that he would have a tendancy to win fights via TKO as well as via points in fights.

He might struggle with slicksters with good jabs, as you've pointed out, but everyone has their stylistic weakness.

 

Why? I'm not an old-school nut-hugger or anything, but I really don't understand this point of view. Why does a durable fighter with an iron chin have to change his style from busy aggression? What are the potential consequences that did not exsist in his own era? Getting punched?

You make some good points here; but there are aspects of a technically gifted fighter, such as Langford or Tunney that look every bit as good as their modern counterparts. Footwork especially where these two are concerned, judging from the limited footage i've seen.

 

I think when you're talking about the absolute extremes of physical attributes then you can get further than journeyman status with those attributes alone. As an example i'd hold up the difference in Jones between having 100% of his speed and 75% of his speed.

He was busy; he shucked on the way in, and it was certainly something he worked on very hard. But at route, he used rythym rather than random action to slip and duck and that always makes you hittable v a top fighter. I disagree with you that great fighters would struggle to land on him because of his defence, although what defence he had combined with his offence would make him hard for anyone to hit.

But do you really feel that Frazier's strategy very different going in from "take one to give one, hit and be hit" rather than "hit without being hit?"

Yes, things might look a little different, but it would take a very special counter puncher to actually make that work face to face with Greb. Aggression is still very much in style, especially in the states. "If you can't win, look like you're winning" would serve him against a fighter like Winky. Think Marciano, busier, without the power - but not devoid of power - that should be mentioned.

Hopkins is arguably no.3 pound for pound now, at 42, and "craftiness" must be amongst his best attributes. It would still serve Greb I feel.

...i think you are onto something here, but I will stick with my initial feeling, aggression is still scored and enough shots will get through to make that scoring valid. Meahnwhile, how to stop him, or even get him of you?

I can see how you got here, but I think this actually would hurt Greb less than many of his contemparies - he is not a power puncher but a busy puncher, he will be putting many in so some will get through. In the meantime he is vulnerable to getting hit but can he be KO'd/counterpunced out of a decision? I would guess that the answer would be no.

Not terribly, actually. A busy referee might impeed him somewhat, but he can still punch in a clinch until it IS broken and someone rellying on this strategy may still get outpunched and will probably get very tired. However, I do think Hopkins might be the guy to do it without lateral movement. Maybe. But I honestly feel we're looking at that kind of fighter, whatever the era.

I'm glad I can touch type bro.

 

I have always felt that in the area of extraordinary fighters, these "deficiencies" may work for a fighter. In Langford's case, he wants you to try to hit him because he can probably punch harder/faster than you. It's a risky business, but speaking personally, if i was handling Lanford I would not have him lift his gloves until he hit 190+. I think it would be worth the risk.

I haven't answered the rest of your post because I got to most of that stuff in Jack's post, i'm not ducking from your ideas or anything.

 

Possible. That is a valid point actually. If Greb steps out of a time machine he loses DQ 1.