Salvador Sanchez KO2 Harry Greb

MMA fighters are avoiding takedowns and have only been taught mediocre boxing skills. Open up this argument will lead to mass confusion. Feints are used for what? They are used to setup punches by creating openings due to your opponeent reacting. They only amount to so much and the that's the primary reason they aren't used much in a scientifically evolved sport.

 

In olden times (which is what I was referring to--1860-1899, remember), fighters did have to deal with wrestling on the inside. That aside, however, feints were used to set up punches precisely because the risk of entering punching range was greater. Even a jab could nail you quite hard, your defence wasn't able to absorb smaller gloved punches (see below) as well, and as a result you needed to prepare your attack with more feints. As a result (like all other skills), fighters were much better at creating more convincing feints and discerning feints from the real thing.

I fail to see your point when you say that feints create openings. Isn't that the point--to open the opponent up to your punches? :huh

Blocking a 2-4 oz. glove with an open hand will hurt quite a bit. Blocking a bare-knuckled strike with an open hand (also bare) will hurt even more. Also, it is harder to block a comparatively smaller glove than a comparatively larger glove, especially when your own blocking gloves are smaller.

In earlier times, fighters blocked with upraised arms to allow the punch to skid off. Greb had advanced somewhat beyond this, but he used a horizontal sweeping technique rather than a conventional "catch" because catches could still probably hurt:

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While I agree that fighters do not punch with the glove, the fact remains that a larger and wider glove will require more head movement to slip. Would you not agree?

Leverage isn't an impossibly difficult concept, really. Fighters in everything from Hung Gar gongfu to early 20th century karate understand how to move the body and throw a punch with leverage. And all of these are what you would call "primitive" fisticuffs compared to boxing.

 

Yes it would. Now to prove your point, explain to me how this tough, full of heart, iron-chinned fighter beats a newer, more evolved version of the same nature in Roberto Duran. I don't want some BS argument about how he is bigger, stronger or tougher. He clearly isn't bigger or stonger. The boxers of today cut weight and have much less body fat. I want you to tell me how he would attack and defend against Duran to earn a victory.

Thanks :good

 

He could be signaling for aliens to come down, but he isn't doing that either.

 

Did you watch the video you linked me too? They brought their arms out to their opponents to try and stop the punches in their path. That is one of the first things you learn not to do when you box. It's because it leaves you wide open to be countered. :good

 

Where did you see him fight? Light sparring is enough to tell he has low level technique compared to today's elites. This is precisely what we are debating about. :yep

hahaha..your comment was pertaining to what I said, hypocrit.

Why do you care? I was essentially called an idiot who doesn't know boxing by you when I didn't even put myself in this thread. I posted a link simply to suit amsterdam so I dodn't have to debate this nonsense. Then I decided it would be fun. Again with the hypocrisy, you've picked me up on a few things have you? :rofl I individually quote each line I'm replying to so that it is clear what I was trying to say. I just returned from birthday party and don't have a clue what you're referring to. If you want me to answer your question, then dig up all the necessary quotes. :good

What haven't I taken into account? PLEASE enlighten me. :rofl Do you even pay attention to what you say?

I said just curious. :rasta

 

I'm not a moron. I know what light sparring is. PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT I AM ACTUALLY DEBATING INSTEAD OF SPINNING WHAT I SAY. I will offer to you the same question as I did for Cross_Trainer. Analytically breakdown how Harry Greb would defeat Roberto Duran. I want to know how he attacks him and how he defends against him.

 

The funny thing is that the simple link with the smartass comment was all he needed to win if you were open minded.

 

Greb clearly is bigger. Duran did not use "modern weight cutting" or modern training--he (like most fighters from the 70's and early 80's) used the same training techniques as guys from Greb's era did. Greb is a natural middle/lightheavy and Duran is a natural light/welterweight

 

All they do in this scenerio is spin things around with no defined answer on the core of the subject, technical skill.

As if Pryor was just a come forward guy with balls and no skill, he was one of the most skilled swarmers of the 80's whom had a phenominal understanding of boxing....:-(

 

Can't speak for Greb's time, but they had a reason for doing something like this way back when. You left the arms more extended to intercept the punches at a greater distance to your body--and grab your opponent's arms, as Corbett does in this clip from his fight with Courtney:

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/h?ammem/papr:@field(NUMBER+@band(edmp+4022))

 

Not spinning, just trying to frame the debate more reasonably.

I'd be perfectly glad to elaborate on how a guy from the bareknuckle era would deal with modern fighters, since I have a much greater volume of information on that style. Heck, I could give you a breakdown of Corbett vs. Louis. But I can't do the same for Greb, because:

a) I don't have enough Greb footage to even begin to judge

b) I'm not a Greb expert anyway, nor do I have the same experience with the 1920's technique that I do with the 1890's.



But I can still give a bit of common sense here and there. To a great degree, a punch is still a punch--especially when it's practiced full-contact against a resisting opponent. Greb practiced it against 300 other skilled athletes, and only started losing because he went blind. When you get to that point, it stops mattering that your punching technique wasn't "modern". It was clearly good enough.

Amsterdam, it's just silly to think there has been so much evolution that any bum with a year of training could beat Greb or Tunney. You have practiced martial arts systems that date from before Greb, unless I'm mistaken...yet they still work. Martial arts systems don't evolve THAT much, barring any revolutionary changes in human evolution.

 

A George Foreman is not made, he is born. These kinds of physical near-superhuman are not exclusive to modern-times. I've read a lot about genetic pre-disposition to sports, and some people, no matter how hard they train, will never run as fast, long, punch as hard or accurate as others.

Cyclist Hinaul had a heartrate of 27 beats per minute while resting. It was huge, and enabled him to an ATG in his field. Some people, like the young twins I read about, have blood that can carry a huge amount of oxygen.

You can't tell me these people were not born in the old times, but are now. Roy Jones was born. Ali was born. Sugar Ray was born.

And Harry Greb was born.